Cremation Any Knowledgeable Legal People About

[MissTerious2]

This is part of a cremation application form which is legally required. Is the person who has signed this has lied how does one go about proving this.

Are you a near relative or an executor of the person who has died?
Near relative means the widow, widower or surviving civil partner of the person
who has died, or a parent or child of the person who has died, or any other relative
usually residing with the person who has died.
If No, please give the nature of your relationship and explain why you are
making the application rather than a near relative or an executor.
Yes No
2. Is there any near relative(s) or executor(s) who has not been informed of the
proposed cremation?

Yes No
If Yes, please give the name(s) and the reason(s) why they have not been contacted.

3. Has any near relative or executor expressed any objection to the
proposed cremation?

Yes No
If Yes, please give details.

4. What was the date and time of death of the person who has died....

[andres]

I was going to say---- who would have paid the Cremation bill and how were the Care Home fees being paid?

[MissTerious2]

I've been doing all the initial work to find things out Peter. I'm not the one involved and my husband is definitely the closest relative. He's the only relative apart from our son.

It does say
/or any other relative
usually residing with the person who has died/ The word usually would imply that my husband should have been told.

The funeral director agreed but said they just have to assume that people are telling the truth. But as Chris says Crematoria want things done quickly. They just send that form off with the death certificate to the crematorium.

[MissTerious2]

Haven't got a clue andres. Probably the 'Friend' was appointed by my sister in law to withdraw funds from her bank. She had a brain tumour and try as we may we couldn't make any contact between being told she was ill and only found out 3 days ago by her ex employer that she died in March.

[Buenchico]

>>> "or any other relative usually residing with the person who has died".

Your husband wasn't 'usually residing' with his sister, so he's NOT included in that wording.

[bednobs]

i dont understand how the undertakers think she's broken the law

[MissTerious2]

I read it wrong Chris. It was ambiguous The sad thing is we only want to have said goodbye in some way and hubby would like some family mementos from her home, like photos and a couple of pictures that came over to England from the family's homeland. And perhaps the cat.

[Peter Pedant]

er - if she has a will
then the executor has the right ( and the duty) to dispose of the body.

it looks from here ( oop t north) that youare going to have to apply for a copy of the will after it is probated

[Buenchico]

Your husband's sister (or someone acting on her behalf) will have needed to make provision for the cat when she went into a care home. It might be worth checking with the Cinnamon Trust to see if they've any knowledge of the arrangement.

[MissTerious2]

Chris, I don't know when she left the house or in what state she was in when she left in house. The care home will be named apparently as place of death, perhaps they will be willing to help in some way and fill in some of the gaps for us. I'm thinking of her now, a really glamorous lady and so independent. Hubby has noone now from his roots or to talk to about them.

[MissTerious2]

I'm really hoping social services got involved because they can help in situations like this.

[andres]

The most important issue is whether she made a will or died intestate. Maybe the Home might know if she had a solicitor.

[MissTerious2]

The thing is Andres is damn data protection gets in way and often doesn't protect those who really need info. Why on earth can't we know where she was cremated or her ashes are. Or perhaps she was buried. The funeral directors said they weren't allowed to tell us. I have a feeling she would have wanted a direct cremation. The worse thing is not knowing.

[Buenchico]

It might be worth contacting the local Salvation Army branch. (Google is your friend). They're rather good at helping people find out at what happened to their loved ones and they don't differentiate between Christians and others when it comes to providing their help.

[MissTerious2]

Thanks Chris,I might try that. I have a lot of respect for the Salvation Army.

[andres]

I hope that you get some answers soon. It must be very frustrating for you. X

[MissTerious2]

Thanks to all of you x

[Barmaid]

Miss T – I would forget about the cremation issue. That is not going to get you anywhere.

You have already requested the death certificate. That may give the name and address of “the friend” – but unless she is the executor or present at death, it is quite likely the death will have been registered by the Care Home Manager.

Couple more things you can do.

Firstly a search at the Public Guardianship Office to see if sister in law had an attorney or deputy:
Find out if someone has an attorney, deputy or guardian acting for them - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Secondly a search at the Probate Registry to see if probate has already been granted:-

Search probate records for documents and wills (England and Wales) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

You can do an immediate online search there. You can also do what is called a Standing Search (scroll down to the bit about “if the person died within the last 6 months” and do a postal search and you will be notified if probate is granted within the next 6 months.

I think the first thing is to get her name and address and then potentially have a solicitor write to her. If you have real concerns following your initial enquiries, you can issue a caveat (this prevents probate), but that is a step I would not be considering yet and in any event not one I would take without legal advice.

[Barmaid]

Sorry, for some reason my links did not work.

https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian#:~:text=Apply%20to%20search%20the%20Office,an%20enduring%20power%20of%20attorney

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

[MissTerious2]

Thank you so much Barmaid. We do know it was the friend who registered the death, not the care home. The registrars have been as helpful as they could and told us this We have obviously to wait until we get the copy certificate before we can contact her because we don't know her surname. If necessary, we will get a solicitors letter sent. Are addresses of those who register on death certificates?

I really appreciate your help and the time you have spent.

The way we found out she had died was that we were getting no replies to phone calls or mails. I phoned her employers telling them who I was because I knew the friend worked at the same place as sister in law and could they get a message to friend and give her our phone number. The receptionist said 'sorry about your loss' ! When she realised we didn't know of sister in laws death she was mortified. She agreed to pass our phone number to friend. All we knew was her first name. If we don't get a call from friend we will definitely suspect her. She had promised to keep us informed.

I'm now emailing Mr T with your replies.

Thanks so much xxxx

[Barmaid]

My pleasure, Miss T.

Yes, the full name and address of the "informant" always appears on a death cert.