Dacorum Borough Council Committing Fraud – Do You Think The Police Will Investigate?

[Hymie]

....according to Nick Freeman (aka Mr Loophole)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68566623

[barry1010]

I don't see how urine is litter, assuming that is the only reason for fining them.

A lot of drivers urinate discreetly in to a container whilst sat in their vehicle and empty it in to a drain.  I don't see the difference 

[mushroom25]

if Mr Freemen believes that urination is not classified as litter under the Environmental Protection Act 1990, he should encourage one of his clients to test his belief in court. if he wins then he can encourage others to challenge their fines. if not, he can wind his neck in.

[ToraToraTora]

If you can't pick it up it ain't litter, end of.

[Hymie]

Dacorum Borough Council have got themselves a tidy sum by this action, should they refund the money before the old bill calls around?

[newmodarmy]

Of course tge police won't.. why should they. Ots not been tested by the courts. If it was they would be expected to give refunds. It's not fraud.

[newmodarmy]

Sorry, typing is hard on my phone while taking a wild wee

[Hymie]

Here’s Mr Loophole discussing this further:-

 

[New Judge]

There is no fraud involved.

Enforcement Agencies (EAs) are free to offer fixed penalties when they believe offences have been committed. Those receiving those offers are equally free to ignore them after which the EA's only option is to prosecute the matter through the Magistrates' Court. There, the usual criminal procedure rules and rules of evidence will govern the proceedings and the EA will have to comply with them.

As far as the actual issue goes (i.e. is urine "litter"?) I don't fancy their chances. Nowhere in the Environmental Protection Act is urine mentioned. DEFRA's guidance on littering also does not mention it. I have never heard of anybody taken to court under the EPA for urinating being convicted. I think Tora's definition is actually a very good one for determining what litter is.