Single Justice Procedure Notice

[sunflower68]

My son has had his second of the above, both for 2 separate speeding fines...filled in 1st and he was charged £700 and 4 points. He is contesting this as he opted for course but filled in wrong payment part. Now this again saying second fine he failed to book the course 

We work together and his mail still comes to my house- I would have passed on all this information to him and helped as he hates forms!! 

He has done all he was meant to do. Now its happened again what should he do as it's going to look like he's lying....so unfair.

 

 

[sunflower68]

Nice bloke he just had letter (SJPN,)he filled it in and plead guilty there was no other choice guilty or not guilty. No letter before however he had filled in fixed penalty on time 

[nicebloke1]

Like I said sunflower its out of my depth to comment especially after your post this morning @11.09  it changed the goal posts and started a whole new ball game, for me to comment now I would no doubt be missleading you. I'm sure Nj will take a look in again maybe at dome point. But all the best

[New Judge]

“First one was 41 in a 30…”

So as I suspected, not 36mph then. 

“…for which he now has 4 points, 417 fine, 90 costs and 167 victim surcharge. Second, pending, 36 in a 30.”

That is near enough spot on according to the sentencing guidelines. These recommend a fine of one week’s net income, reduced by a third for a guilty plea. The Victim Surcharge is set at 40% of the fine.

What he should have done is in the “mitigating circumstances” section of his response to the SJPN is to have asked the court if, in view of the confusion that arose with the course acceptance, they would consider sentencing him at the fixed penalty level (£100 and 3 points). Too late for that now.

“So he he decided to go to court for the first offence?”

I doubt he decided. If he driver does not (properly) accept the out-of-court offers, court is the only remaining option.

“there was no other choice guilty or not guilty.”

There are two choices when pleading guilty – either attend court or do not attend court. But apart from that, what other choice would he be expecting? He faces a criminal charge in a criminal court. His options can only be to plead guilty or not guilty. 

“No letter before…”

What letter was he expecting?

 “…however he had filled in fixed penalty on time”

Then why are the police prosecuing him? Are they saying  that he did not accept their offer or that he did not comply with its requirements (to pay £100 and submit his licence details)?

This time he needs to do what I suggested he should have done in the first case – ask to be sentenced at the fixed penalty level. The court has guidance which suggests they can do this if they think fit. But they will not do it unless they are asked and the circumstances are explained.

[sunflower68]

Hi Judge

You seem to be analysing my post as if I am trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Which I am not. I agree the info is sketchy.

Your responses are much appreciated and I have since laid out the circumstances.

I nor he are not prone to rule breaks and as such are not au fait in the intricacies of court law. I thought I had read through everything and in hindsight would advise he looks more closely for other options however he believed this letter was just another formality and I cannot knock that.

Seems a complete rip off to me but thanks. 

[nicebloke1]

Sunflower. NJ was analysing your post because ( with respect) from your OP it didnt sound right. To give accurate feed back especially in law you need to give accurate information of the problem and the offences. It was not until your post @11.09 that he/ we got the full info on what speeds were involved. Even the rest of what has happened is not fully clear. Regarding filling forms in wrong I can't see thats possible. The first notice requires bog standard info, name of driver, date of birth, driving licence number. Second form, you decide on option 1 or option 2. All of the latter is time limitted, each form 28 days. So its all very simple.

[bednobs]

also meant to add, he needs to update his records of his address on his driving licence, log book, insurance etc if his post comes to your address when he no longer lives there

[nicebloke1]

^^ Yep he really does need to do that, it can for sure complicate matters.

[New Judge]

"You seem to be analysing my post as if I am trying to pull the wool over your eyes."

Not at all.

I subscribe to a number of motoring websites where people post nothing but these problems. I help many of them because I know most of what there is to know about traffic offences and the procedures adopted by the police and the courts. 

The biggest issue when trying to help people with those problems is lack of or incorrect information. Often something like "I got a speeding ticket and now I've been fined £1,000. What can I do?" Obviously it is impossible to help with just that information and the full story usually has to be teased out bit by bit.

I knew as soon as you told me your son had been fined £700 for doing 36mph in a 30 limit that something was amiss. The fact that it was 41mph makes a considerable difference - in fact, as you can see, it doubles the fine. The fact that it was 41 instead of 36 makes all the difference and, as nb points out, the detail is very important.

So it is with the paperwork (as, alas, your son has found out). You must get it right.

I am always willing to help. If your son gets any further problems (which, hopefully he won't) put a post on here, letting me know what has happened, what paperwork he has received, etc. 

Most people manage to see speeding charges dealt with (either by way of a course or fixed penalty) without court action. As you have seen, it is far and away the cheapest option. But you must comply with the requirements the police make.

[sunflower68]

Hi all thankyou Nice bloke for your help here too and Bednobs I agree about address and it worries me but the reason he never changed it is because the guy upstairs said to be careful as post goes missing as it isnt secure in the flat. Hence he got first speeding ticket in first 2 weeks of moving in and I was wary of him changing address in case his documents went astray!!. So no doubt he is in more trouble now!!!

Thankyou Judge for your reply and I do appreciate your help. I will try to explain.

First caught 36 in 30 zone. Offered course. He accepted this and somehow in a payment form. Money £100 taken by court. Then returned to account and we heard nothing for months till sept when he plead guilty on the SJPN. Court advised him to do this.

 

2nd speeding 42 in 40. Did the same but filled in online. He is quite obsessive about times and dates so this he would not have allowed to be late. Heard nothing for months. Now a second SJPN similar to first one. It states they did not hear from him after the original notice was sent. He has had no notification from court in his email to confirm he has sent anything so probably stuffed anyway.

 

He is disputing first one currently. 

[New Judge]

Details! Details!”

I’m not picking holes, just demonstrating why things can go wrong:

“First caught 36 in 30 zone. Offered course. He accepted this and somehow in a payment form. Money £100 taken by court.”

A court is not involved with either a course or a fixed penalty. If the driver is offered a course, he chooses the course provider and pays them (they all charge slightly different fees). If he accepts a fixed penalty he pays the fixed penalty office. If he takes this option he must also submit his driving licence details, even though he may have already done so when earlier identifying himself as the driver.

“Then returned to account and we heard nothing for months till sept

I suspect he chose a fixed penalty, paid £100 and failed to submit his driving licence details.

"...when he plead guilty on the SJPN.Court advised him to do this.”

Courts should not advise defendants on their pleas. However, he had no realistic option but to plead guilty. The only defence he would have is if he had complied with the requirements of a fixed penalty offer (i.e. paid £100 and submitted his DL details). Then the prosecution would be barred but from what you say it is not at all clear whether or not he did this.

“2nd speeding 42 in 40. Did the same but filled in online. He is quite obsessive about times and dates so this he would not have allowed to be late. Heard nothing for months. Now a second SJPN similar to first one. It states they did not hear from him after the original notice was sent."

This is far more troubling. What I am about to ask is very important. When you say “…they did not hear from him after the original notice was sent” that indicates to me that they did not receive his response to the original “request for driver’s details.” What charge(s) are mentioned on this second SJPN?

And finally:

“He is disputing first one currently.”

How is he disputing it (i.e. who with and by what method)?

[New Judge]

And just reading your post again, I assume the second offence alleges 42 in a 30, not in a 40?

Details! Details!  😀

[nicebloke1]

Still no real conclusion to what if anything did go wrong, or who is responsible if it did?

 As far as I can see and have experienced there are 2 procedures to follow. First being the notice of intended prosecution, were you the driver? Yes. Fill your details in and post it back. If doing it online, you are allocated a 16 digit number with the intended prosecution notice along with a pin number to access your offence. It also has a checklist to whats been attended to and whats not. The second procedure that they require from you is just to choose what option you prefer 1 or 2. Option 1 is the course and YOU have 28 days to book that, if you dont then look out, could the latter have happened? Option 2, Again YOU let them know you prefer the points and fine, and again you have 28 days to act. Time is important for both options No excuses I'm afraid.

[New Judge]

What's very important at present is to establish what charges are shown on the latest SJPN.

I do hope sunflower finds out because I suspect it may include "failing to provide driver's details."

[sunflower68]

Thanks everyone for helping out with this. Much appreciated. He will plead guilty and try mitigating circumstances.

[New Judge]

"He will plead guilty and try mitigating circumstances."

Before he worries about mitigating circumstances, what is the answer to the question I posed at 14:18 on Tueday 15th? i.e. 

” What charge(s) are mentioned on this second SJPN?"

This is very important. Do not assume that it is only speeding.

[sunflower68]

He is charged with failing to book a test or accept a fine.

[New Judge]

"He is charged with failing to book a test or accept a fine."

That is not an offence and it will not be listed on the SJPN. Hopefully all that will be listed is speeding (which is the offence which will result from failing to book a test or accept a penalty).

The reason I'm asking and making what you might think is an unnecessarily big deal about this is because earlier on you said:

"Now a second SJPN similar to first one. It states they did not hear from him after the original notice was sent."

If he did not respond to the "original request" (which I assume to be the request for driver's details") or he did respond but it was not received by the police, they would not be in a position to offer him a course or accept a fine. That can only be done after a response for the driver's details is received (because until then they don't know who was driving and so don't know who to offer the course or the fine to).

If this is the case he will also be charged with "failing to provide the driver's details" and this will appear on the SJPN.

This is a much more serious offence than speeding. It carries a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code which will see his insurance premiums rocket.

I suggest he reads the SJPN properly because if he pleads guilty to both those charges there is a strong chance he will finish up with nine points.