Moving House - What do solicitors do for their money?

[tell-me-more]

And how much can I do myself? Are there some parts that are easy to do and would save me a lot of money? Can I even do part of the stuff and ask a solicitor to do the rest?

[dannydingbat]

Although it's true that the system favours the legal profession and is, to an extent, a self perpetuating money printing exercise that could be done a lot more easily, they do all sorts of stuff and the money you pay does not all go to them (search fees, stamp duty etc). If you are buying, the tasks are different from when you are selling. If you are doing both at the same time, its the two added together. There are searches, checking title, co-inciding completion dates, preparing, agreeing, exchanging and examining documents and associated correspondence, including keeping you advised and arranging for you to sign things. They also act for the lender in most cases so have to convince them that all their security is dealt with. You have those costs to pay as well. The whole thing can get really complicated when long chains of sales and purchases are linked. Basically, they have to look after your interests and can be sued if they get it wrong.

Compare this with the estate agent who keeps a key (sometimes) and takes a photo. He charges a straight percentage cut regardless of how much work is involved and usually will not let on if he has a buyer lined up as this will mean they can collect tons of cash without having to write a single letter, print the particulars or even measure up. The rest of the time, they are buying flash ties and new cars. And they get between five and ten times what the solicitor charges. And, if you are buying, they are not even acting for you or in your best interests so you can't sue them so long as they don't actually lie (Cue tirade from the Toni and Guy, Armani and Porsche flash estate agent fraternity)

[Susie Strawb]

dannydingbat I love you for saying that about estate agents, evil thieving bar stewards the lot of them :o)

[buildersmate]

You're kidding yourself Danny - its about 4 hours of actual work over a longish elapsed period of time (maybe 2 months). Or about �150 per hour.

[buildersmate]

The simple answer to the question on saving money is to ring around some licensed conveyancers for a quotation. You will find they charge less money for the same work. In fact most decent-sized high-street solicitors practices employ a couple of licensed conveyancers anyway who will be the people you actually deal with on the work anyway (if you don't believe me, ask the professional you are allocated whether they are a qualified solicitor or a licensed conveyancer). High-street practices will rightly say they are working under a solicitor partner, which is true, but it doesn't change the price of fish.
IMHO solicitors appear to operate a price cartel, under the guidance of the Law Society, using some sort of tables to price the job based on simple parameters like the buying/selling price, and whether the land is registered or currently unregistered. My evidence for this is that having rung around eight different practices in various random parts of England, asking for a price based on common parameters, the prices quoted varied by less than 5% from the highest to the lowest.

[Susie Strawb]

Also bear in mind you don't have to have a Licensed Conveyancer or Solicitor acting for you that's even in the same County. I have known of a lot of people buying/selling properties in the London area who use Solicitors/Licensed Conveyancers in a completey different area simply because they charge less than London ones

[dannydingbat]

I am not kidding myself - as a former conveyancing clerk who worked for a small firm of solicitors. I stand by what I say. It is true that you can act for yourself but, don't forget, if you have a mortgage on your existing, sold property or want one on the newly obtained one, the lender will appoint their own solicitor to act for them. This will then cost twice as much as a solicitor acting for both you and them in the rest of the case will charge as they give a discount in these circumstances.

I think buildersmate had a bad expereince and they saw him coming. Probably thought he was a buildier's mate on �200 per hour!!

[Susie Strawb]

Sorry buildersmate I'm with danny on this one - I'd love to see you do the whole conveyancing process in four hours, and most conveyancers don't charge on a "per hour" basis - if they did they'd make a hell of a lot more money out of conveyancing than they actually get

[tell-me-more]

I can see it might make sense to use the same solicitor/conveyancer as my lender if they give a discount. Thanks for the advice.

[tell-me-more]

For the record, I will be needing a mortgage. Does anyone still think I would be better of ringing round conveyancers up north, or if I'm getting a mortgage will I get a better deal from the lender's solicitor?

[dannydingbat]

OK tell-me-more, you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say earlier. If you go to a conveyancer rather than a solicitor, they will not be allowed to handle any part of the transaction which involves having the deeds or handling the money for the lender on your present house. As for your purchase, the lender will not allow a conveyancer to handle the money or prepare the new documents. That means they will employ their own solicitor to do that and you will pay his enhanced bill as well as the conveyancer's. If you get a proper solicitor, they will probably use him to do their work and, because its all in one place, its quicker and cheaper as its less labour intensive. Get quotes for either choice.

[buildersmate]

Susie - I didn't say it was possible to do the job in 4 hours of elapsed time - it's 4 hours of work over a couple of months, with many other jobs also occurring inbetween.

[dannydingbat]

..............during which time they have to pay staff, rates, bills etc even if there is no other work!!

[tell-me-more]

Thanks so much for your answers guys and girls.

I'm sorry if I'm being dim, but I don't understand what goes on still. Because I'm buying a flat and arranging a mortgage, does that mean that there are two "cases" for the solicitors to resolve?

In my situation, would it be wise to choose a solicitor suggested by my lender to simplify the situation/get a discount/avoid paying two sets of fees?

[Susie Strawb]

danny you're confusing me - what do you mean the lender won't let a licensed conveyancer handle the mortgage monies and prepare the new documents?? None of the main high street lenders have any problems instructing licensed conveyancers - I know there are a couple of the more obscure mortgage companies that for some reason don't allow licensed conveyancers to act on their behalf but frankly they're not worth bothering with anyway!

[dannydingbat]

In that case, things have clearly changed since I was doing it. The major lenders would never send out deeds or money to someone acting for themselves. Logical approach that. Still, as I've confused people, I will shut up now and the enquirer should get his own information based on all the circumstances of his individual case.

[Eve]

Hi, nice to see us lot aren't getting slated for once, thank you :)

Tell-me-more, the way it usually works is you instruct a legal advisor to handle your your sale (if any) and purchase.

If you are getting a mortgage on your purchase the lender will usually instruct the law firm acting for you to act on their behalf also in sorting the mortgage formalities (ie confirming that the property is fine for their security legally wise and arranging for the legal documentation to be advised upon and signed). This is extremely common and probably more usual than not that a lawyer will be instructed by the lender act on the mortgage.

I should note that lawyers can only advise on the legal issues surrounding your mortgage, any financial queries you have should be addressed to a financial advisor.

Fees wise most conveyancing is fixed fee these days. Often there are bands of fixed fees which increase withthe property price ie the higher the price the more you pay.

I've worked in a number of cities up north as well as central London and didn't notice a huge amount of different in the fees as such, just that as London prices are so much higher that the fixed fee brackets the properties fall into tend to be higher.

Some firms will charge add ons so it may be an idea to check that eg extra sums for dealing with mortgage, dealing with stamp duty, if the property in unregistered (ie they have to examine title deeds and many other extra things and register the property at the Land Registry on completion rather than just sorting the change of name and registering the mortgage. Some will charge an add on for leasehold properties which you should check if you are buying a flat as it is likely to be leasehold.

[Eve]

Fees are subject to VAT to remember to take that into account.

Also make sure you are fully aware of what the disbursements (charges for searches etc...) will be including the Land Registry Fee and stamp duty amount (if any).

Also if you're buying a flat check if there will be any extra sums payable on completion (esp with new newbuild), any notice fees (if you have a lease often notice needs to be served on the landlord of your purchase and any charge), and any apportionments for, for example ground rent or service charge.

Few extra tips for saving money, make sure that if you have to sign a stamp duty form that it is done and returned to your lawyer preferably before completion as there is a time limit of 28 days from completion after which very steep penalties and interest accrue.

Also make sure completion dates and arrangements are well organised as late completions can also accrue notice fees and interest payments.

Don't finalise removals until any completion date is set on exchange of contracts and both sides are legally bound.

Finally, it may be tempting to take the cheapest quote but i'd go on reputation. It always amazes me how little people are willing to spend and how much they want to cut corners on probably the biggest investment of their lives. It's worth getting it done properly so you are advised as well as you can be and don't end up with problems at a later date, especially when you sell, which could be costly, timeconsuming and extremely difficult to fix.

Hope that makes sense?

[Solarjunkie]

We did our own conveyancing on both buying and selling our house. We used a book called something like "Castle's Guide to Home Conveyancing" and we just followed the instructions.
Both transactions were straightforward, I'm sure we would have consulted a legal advisor if there was anything complicated.
We saved the entire solicitor's fees.

[Eve]

Try this...http://www.home.co.uk/guides/buying/choose_sol icitor.htm.

Loads of details about the whole process.