english law run by retards?

[kev100]

Just seen on teletext Alan Grant has just been sentenced to life in prison for the kidnapping and rape of a 15 year old girl, it is not his first offence he has already served 12 years for exactly the same offence.

What's wrong with that I hear you ask? I'll tell you.

The judge ordered that he serve at least SEVEN years of the life sentence.

Every judge in this country is a retard, I'm close to retirement and in my life I can count sensible decisions made by British judges on one hand.

[sandbach99]

It is something to do with the rapist pleading guilty and the Judge havimg to take that into account.

Seven years is the earliest he can be released it is unlikely he will be considered fit for release then.

[kev100]

and your answer sandbach demonstrates the complete inadequacy of the law and the retards that apply it.

There shouldn't be any question of when this man is released it should be in a pine box not "to quote you" it is unlikely he will be released in seven years

[Oneeyedvic]

"in my life I can count sensible decisions made by British judges on one hand."

and apart from the cases that make the headlines, how many court cases have you followed?

[kev100]

Miscarriage of justice vic has been my passion for 35 years, I can't accurately answer your question but it is certainly into the thousands

[wired]

There is a vast difference between law and justice and whilst judges have to work within the confines of the law little blame seems to be attributed to those making the laws. This government alone have passed far too many laws which are almost impossible to uphold.
The other main problem is that victims have such a small "voice" whilst those who break the law have many groups to support them.

[Scylax]

As far as serious felonies are concerned, the USA
appears to have the right answer. Truly punitive
terms of imprisonment are the rule, notwithstanding
the fact that US penitentiaries are grossly overcrowded.

In Britain, judges and magistrates are constrained by
governmental ineptitude, and a reluctance to see the UK
prison population rise beyond the 70,000 mark, which
is much less than the female population of US prisons.

We, in the UK, appear to be living in the wrong country
if we expect ' law and justice' to be synonymous.

[Oneeyedvic]

Murder rate in USA: 5.9 per 100,000

murder rate in England & Wales: 1.62 per 100,000

Which country would you prefer to live in now - over 300% higher chance of getting murdered in the States despite the potential death penalty and life imprisonments!

[Le Chat]

It seems that longer sentences are handed out for fraud and tax evasion.
I'm with you 100% on this one kev.

[Oneeyedvic]

Of course, the other argument is:

If you know that you will go to prison for life after committing a crime like rape, then wouldn't it be easier to kill the girl after the rape - after al, there is nothing to lose and potentially an eye witness to 'win'.

Also, why not put the ordeal of a trial on the girl - again nothing to lose and with a good lawyer, I am sure you can cast lots of aspersions on the girl.

So, think about what kind of crimes now deserve life imprisonments, whether you want to put a victim through a trial and also the expense of putting someone through a trial.

[Scylax]

Did I advocate a mass exodus to the USA in order
to sample their prison regimes ? God forbid.

The UK has the lowest murder-rate of any country,
(arguably), whilst the US vies with S. Africa for the
highest. Seemingly, this is because in the UK murder
is not the way Britons resolve their differences.

Kev100 (above) reasons that a recommended 7
year sentence for a second offence of kidnap and
rape is lenient +++, and I agree with him.

There is something wrong with our judicial system,
and everyone knows it, hence the overdue criticism
of the Home Office, which is current news.

[Oneeyedvic]

It is not a 7 year sentence - it is a life imprisonment with a minimum of seven years needed to be served.

[ludwig]

..which 9 times out of ten amounts to a 7 year sentence Vic.
That's the problem. Parole seems to be handed out to the most heinous of criminals if they're prepared to say 'I'm sorry, I promise not to do it again'.

[Oneeyedvic]

The parole figure of 9 out of 10 is wildly inaccurate - last years figures: around 1 in 9 people were released (106 granted from 901 requests)

Still, doubt that any actual facts will change your opinion!

[Ctrak]

Oneeyedvic of course makes the remotely intelligent point that the Mail and Express never seem to get- that actually, regardless of whether the sentence is to be tortured for 72 hours and then hanged without a trapdoor or to say "sorry" to the victim, it won't be a deterrent, either because the criminal is psychotic, or the motive overwhelms the consequences etc.

It's also worth forgetting that the judiciary have had much of their ability to exercise discretion removed under New Labour- it's not the judge who's a retard, because the chances are he's powerless regarding sentencing.

[JudgeJ]

It is disappointing, kev, to read that, despite your extensive research into miscarriages of justice, you consider that the law is �run by retards�.

When passing sentences, judges and magistrates have, by law, to be mindful of the tariffs which are laid down by the Sentencing Guidelines Council. If they wish to depart from these tariffs they must explain themselves in open court. Argument over the justification for departure from the published tariffs is one of the main reasons for appeals against sentence.

It is unreasonable to expect that all offences should attract the maximum tariff available. Who, for example, would be happy to see a fine of �1,000 (or �2,500 if on a motorway) imposed for every speeding offence? Hence the need for tariffs which can take account of some of the variations in the seriousness of individual offences.

The issue of �Life� sentences is another matter. When the Death Penalty was abolished it was said that it was to be replaced by a sentence of Life imprisonment and that this was to mean Life. History has told the electorate (as if they needed telling) not to believe all they hear from Parliament.

Offences which can attract a Life sentence also have a tariff which the judge has to use when announcing his recommended minimum period. I personally think that in cases where �Life� does not mean life the term should not be used and a fixed term imposed instead.

This is just a brief explanation of my understanding of the many complex issues which surround sentencing practice. There may be problems and anomalies. However, most people involved in the administration of justice are intelligent, qualified and experienced and are doing their job in accordance with their instructions. Labelling them as �retards� just will not do.

[ludwig]

Vic - you're right on both counts, firstly my 9 out of 10 figure was not fact - it was a deliberate exaggeration to make a point.
Secondly, now you have given me the facts, it hasn't changed my opinion - I reckon 106 granted paroles from 901 requests is probably about 95 too many.

[kev100]

Judge I get the impression that you are trying to make an intellectually sounding argument where it is not neccessary, this man is a child rapist and anyone with a spark of intelligence would lock him away until his worthless life is over.

Could anyone be stupid enough to think he wont do it again?