religion and schools

[wizard69]

A few of you will know that my son (and mrs wizards son)
are home educated.A part of the reason (admitedly a small part) is the religious aspect. My son was once told that he would burn in hell if he didnt pray to Allah 5 times a day--this was on a school trip to a mosque when he was about 7.
The question is, how should religion be taught in schools?
I questioned everything that I was taught in R.E. and it wasnt appriciated.I had to have morning assembly where bible stories were forced down our throats and we had to bow our heads in prayer and sing hyms.I found it all ridiculous even then but we HAD to conform.
I teach my son and stepson about religion but from a question and answers point of view and from an historical perspective and they are encouraged to use logic and reason when examining religious claims.
Would schools be better to teach logic and reason, rather than religious twaddle

[luna-tic]

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how it affects childrens lives; Religion will always be taught in schools.
My three nieces were forced into the Catholic education system and I distinctly remember one of them saying, it served no purpose and had no real meaning to life for them. Their homework consisted of learning biblical scripture and the various stories of the bible which as a child is no more relevant than reading Jack & Jill.
If future generations are coerced into faith schools or being taught religion then unless it is based in fact and the stories teach true morals, it should not stand as just based on belief alone.
If anything it teaches us about deception and lying in order to win over people of weak, fragile or innocent minds.

[luna-tic]

P.S. To add to that. At least when you read a fictional book to a child or they have one to read, you don't try to pass it off as fact.
If The Bible or biblical stories said on the cover: Fiction/Some events may be based on actual events but we're not really sure, then the child could make his own mind up as to it's realism.

[naomi24]

Religion could be taught from an historical and sociological point of view, and numbers 5-10 of the ten commandments could be encompassed too, because they contain some of the fundamental rules of a civilised society, but religion isn't fact and should never be taught as fact because that causes confusion, mistrust and social division.

[Miss Gray]

Where I was at school we also had the morning assemby with prayer and hymns etc however as it was not a religious school as such the teachers were not allowed to force us to confom. Most people did out of habit but being the stubborn atheist I am and always have been I would never do it and stand up extra straight. Haha! We were taught religious studies where we had to learn about all world religions (even though our teacher was very christian) and it never made me believe anything other than what I have always believed. We were never told about people who didn't believe in any religion though... However as far as I know it never made anyone else change their beliefs... My point being if you send a child to a supposedly secular school I don't think they will get enough brainwashing to change what they believe (which is most likely what their parents believe). My mum is Jewish although not observant and my dad is very much an atheist. I wasn' brought up anything and eft to make my own decision and went through a period when I was about 11 or 12 of being very interested in all religions to see if there was one I didn't think was utter twaddle as I thought in theory it was a nice idea (needless to say I never found one!) however what I was told in school had little bearing on this. Logic and reason would be better taught however you could argue these things do get taught to a certain extent in science and maths... Either way I think what happens at home has a much larger impact - most kids don't pay attention in school half the time anyway! xx

[jackthehat]

When my son was 7, I was called into the classroom after school one day...........during their 'religious' lessons he was quoting chunks of 'The Life of Brian' much to the amusement of the Teacher..........but I was asked if I could stop letting him watch it...........so I let him watch Mel Brooks take on Moses receiving the 10 commandments instead !

[brionon]

That great Comedian Dave Allen was told by the Nuns at his school that his,Protestant Mother would burn in Hell. Nice people the Xtians.

[Octavius]

I went to a Roman Catholic school and religion was never enforced and we often openly discussed faith, belief, scepticism and doubts � we had the freedom to decide whether we wanted to actively practice our religion or not. We were encouraged freedom of thought and expression. We also learnt about other religions and faiths and other ways of life.

Is this AB Sub-category only populated by Christian-haters and over zealous bible bashers?

Some people think far too much about religion, more often it is those that don�t believe in it, rambling on and on about how they don�t believe in religion. It gets very dull indeed.

[jackthehat]

I believe that many ABers on this site take comfort in some sort of 'guiding hand'; even if that hand is the evolutionary impulse.

What we non-religious types hate is that Religion, and more importantly its interpretation, is used as a big stick with which to beat us.

The only 'cigarette paper' that you could get between me and the way that the clean-living bible-following Christian contributers on R&S live their life is that my life partner (17 years) is of the same sex as me.

There..........I hand you a chunk of wood to hit me with.

It doesn't matter now HOW I live my life.........it is already deemed as perverse and unChristian and God will turn his face away from me..............so say the Christians.

Nice !

[Octavius]

Hmm big stick, beat us, I am gay thingy?

You obviously feel the need to be persecuted by somebbody in order to somehow retain that chip on your shoulder.

I am christian, I have many gay friends, I don't have a stick, nor use one to beat people, I don't preach to people about religion of any persuasion I keep it personal to me, I recognise other peoples beliefs and freedom to choose and express those beliefs or non-beliefs (whatever floats your boat), I dont question their beliefs or non-beliefs and I don't espouse the theory of the burning pits of hell.

But you make me out to be a bad person.

[jackthehat]

No, Octavius, you misunderstand me...........

If you read the postings from the more fervent Christians on this site you will read postings exactly as I have described.

I take offence at the suggestion that I have a chip on my shoulder.........I'm telling you how 'true' Christians perceive my life.

I have Christian friends who are fully aware of my situation and it grates on me when they start feeling sorry for me. Like you they may not subscribe to the theory that I'll burn in hell, but they have no doubt that God will turn his face from me.

I don't know you and would never say that you are a bad person..........the 'you' I referred to was more general than specific as I assume that other Christians, possibly less tolerant, will also read the post.

[Fingerprint]

jack - I have to agree with Octavius it does seem that you are trying to paint yourself as the persecuted victim.

I'm a Christian and post in this section regularily, but I have never attacked gays in the way you suggest. In fact I can show you a lot of posts I have made defending gays. I don't judge people and would never dream of saying anyone would burn in hell. Yes, a lot of Christians do disagree with the gay lifestyle but that does not make it right to stereotype all Christians in this way or to suggest that all "true" Christians hold these views - that's not true.

In fact the only person I can ever remember criticisng gays on here is Mani and everyone knows that he has some very extreme opinions.



I actually don't believe that God turn's his backs

but you are still casting me into that stereotype.

[Octavius]

'There .... I hand you a chunk of wood to hit me with'

Seems you deliberately set out to tar all christians with the same brush. Hence, chip.

I also abhor the bible bashing holier than thou trash that is so often purported to be that of 'true' christians, and for that they can also eke out their theological frustrations on me.

But so be it, and so what, people will always have opinions that differ from yours whether Christian or not (it is not necessary to be only a bible bashing christian to be homophobic is it?). I just don't rattle on about it. If the church says you are gay and ergo you cannot be christian and go to church, then don't. Do you really feel as though you would be losing out?

[jackthehat]

I believe that I am only throwing a hat into the ring, it is for you to decide if it fits..........the responses so far are from people that it doesn't fit, fair enough.

Agreed, it is not necessary to be a Christian to be a homophobe but as this site is predominantly about religion I believe that my points are valid.

I am neither persecuted nor 'chippy', I just felt that as there is a lot of talk about 'aberrent' lifestyles (biblically speaking) I could offer first hand experience; for adultery see Naomi24, etc.

[luna-tic]

Whether we like to admit it or not; It's our differences of opinion, beliefs and usually wholehearted interest in the subjects of religion and spirituality and all that encompasses, aswell as the historical and sociological elements that make up the lively debate on here.
These all make up the rich tapestry of life and unless someone is attacking someone personally through this medium for no other reason than to cause upset then I and I'm sure many others would like this sub-menu topic to continue.
I've said it before but if I thought that whatever I've offered as a question or response was to cause personal upset, I would sign-off from here for good.

[Octavius]

It would appear then jack that you can only debate your opinion of religion and Christianity with those whom you call �true� Christians - those that denounce homosexuality and adultery? Surely these sentiments are not the preserve of Christians?

Yes this sub-topic is about religion and as I said above, appears to be mainly populated and contributed to by non-religious people, which is fine, but they just keep regurgitating the same old arguments waiting for the bible bashers to bite back in order to further fuel your superficial arguments.

Likewise, if the religious/Christian hat doesn�t fit, then don�t wear it. Walk past it in the shop and sneer at it, but don�t stand there poking it, goading and mocking.

[luna-tic]

Sorry if I have caused offence Octavius.
Although my questions and responses do sometimes have a quirky or amusing slant, they were in no way mean't as a personal slur toward anyone in particular.
If that is your assumption of my only reason for being on here then I understand and apologise.
Tatty bye to Answerbank I think.

[Fingerprint]

Jack - The thing is that you are judging all Christians against what you percieve to be a negative steretype. Would you not take offence if someone judged you against the negative stereotype of a gay man?

Just take a look at this website; http://www.gaychristian.net/ , it's just one of a number of gay christian groups.

I not denying that some Christians disagree with the gay lifestyle but as long as they are not being abusive or promoting violence through their beliefs then why are their views any less valid than yours?

[naomi24]

Luna, please, please don't leave Answerbank just because of one person. Think of all your friends here - we'd miss you so much. Your opinions are always level-headed and are just as valid as anyone elses - and the whole point of AB is to debate our different views.

Octavius, if this section doesn't suit you because you feel it is over-populated by non-believers whose opinions are dull and superficial, perhaps you should stop bothering to read our posts. We don't all think the same way, but if we did there would be no debate - and that's when this section would really would become dull.

Jack, I told you before, please don't let people upset you.

[Octavius]

�The whole point of AB is to discuss our different views.�

I gave an opinion and you tell me not to read yours � Hallelujah!

If people wish to play the poor wounded victim and threaten to leave the site then who are we to stop them? I am most willing to hear constructive criticism based on fact and experience but the original question surely set out to debunk the entire Christian faith and those people therein?

�Would schools be better to teach logic and reason, rather than religious twaddle?�

It is a recurring theme, and it feels that the contributors need to get a response from a fundamentalist to validate their theories. It would also seem that when this is not the case they throw their toys out of the pram and do a runner.

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.