driving with no insurance. ho/rt1 issued

[avoss]

please help! i have just been issued with a ho/rt1 form as i was stopped for driving with no insurance. i wasnt asked to sign the form. does this matter? i just have to produce my insurance for a "check" only,not a "record". i thought i was covered by my insurance on my other car which is fully comp,and costs a lot more as it is a lot higher ins group than the one i was i stopped in. on my insurance it states "insured to drive a private car not belonging to me". i am the "registered keeper" of the vehicle i was stopped in,but surely the "registered keeper" and actual "owner" are on a technicality, two different things?! im just about to start a new job in 1month and i need a clean licence.im currently oou of work and on benefit due to an accident at work years ago. i have never been without tax,ins,or mot,and have a clean licence and never had an accident,but always pay extra for protection on my ins. 16years street legal and the 1 time im (maybe) technically not,im stopped,and possibly looking at a big fine and points? please any advice would be welcome. thank you

[Vesper99]

The form you have been given puts the onus on you to prove that you were insured at the time you drove.
When you take it to a police station they check it out and if you are covered no action is taken. However, it seems you have inadvertently driven without insurance: if you own two cars you have to insure them both.
If you plead guilty by letter you will probably be fined �200 with 6 penalty points. If you go to court and explain that you were not deliberately driving uninsured you may find the bench more lenient. On the other hand it will be made clear that you are responsible for ensuring you are insured and you will probably not escape the points.
Tell your new employer about the slip-up: he may be understanding.

[avoss]

thank you for your swift reply vesper. although its not looking good!

[Wellard]

I think it is really pointless giving you sympathy, and I think the Magistrates would also think so if you go to court. Although you do not actually plead poverty, your question does give that impression, So how do you afford two cars - one of which is in a high insurance bracket? It must be obvious to anyone that if you have two cars then you need two lots of insurance cover, I know it crops up on here frequently that I `thought` I was covered but generally they are just trying to wriggle out of getting a punishment they deserve.

[avoss]

thank you wellard! i forgot to state that i actually taxed the car 6weeks ago using the insurance on the other one (assuming i am covered that way) i wasnt pleading poverty, i was just being honest and hoped someone in my position had experienced this. the high ins group car is an old one,the newer one which i was stopped in is a cheap car i have bought to sell on but needed to use it as other one broken down.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

there are over a million people in the uk driving cars without insurance,you are very lucky the police dident take the car off you because of it, because they have the power to do so,if you are not insured you will get between 6 and 8 pts on your licence and a heavy fine plus court costs,courts are sick and tired of this crime and you will have a criminal record now,if you dident have one before,the courts have heard all the excuses before,so dont expect any leniency.you deserve all that is coming your way,myself i would ban all uninsured drivers for 3 yrs,maybe then people would realise its better to buy it then not.

[avoss]

thank you normanthedog. you sound like you think i knew i wasnt insured,but i genuinely did not. my insurance isnt worded clearly enough to make this clear.

[redcrx]

If it wasnt clear then you shouldve checked with your insurers before driving the second car.

you should never assume anything where insurance is concerned

[NORMANTHEDOG]

as far as im concerned there are NO excuses.

[bednobs]

are you saying the car you were stopped in does not "belong" to you?

[avoss]

thank you redcrx, it seemed clear to me when i took the insurance out nearly a year ago, especially when i asked am i insured to drive any other car and they said yes. to me that is clear.

[avoss]

thank you again normanthedog. although to correct you,i am not making excuses,i am giving my REASONS. so,like you say,there ARE no excuses.

[avoss]

hi bednobs,thanks for your message, i am the registered keeper of the car i was stopped in although my mechanic friend bought it from me recently. (he is repairing my other car which is fully comp insured) he has bought it off me in p/ex for work on my other car. he has his own car and as he only does mechanical work from home after work sometimes this was planned to be insured by him as a curtesy car for his customers.but i needed to use it to pick up my parts for him and presumed "i am insured to drive third party only,any car not belonging to me" (as im the registered keeper of the car until dvla update it,am i actually the owner? confusing,i know. in a nutshell i was stopped without insurance. any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.

[THECORBYLOON]

If I understand correctly, you were driving the car you had previously selt to yir pal. You would have notified DVLA of the change of ownership so I would have thought that he would have been the new Registered Keeper and Owner as from when he purchased it.

I can only suggest that you contact the DVLA explain the situation and see if thay can confirm that they have received the notification even if they have not had a chance to process it yet.

That at least will show to the police that the sale took place prior to the check and it's not been done after in an attempt to get round having no insurance for that car..

[bednobs]

briliant, then you are ok, all you have to do is contact the dvla, and get proof the car dosent belong to you then the insurance you are using is valid

[themas]

The DVLA record is what it says - registered keeper. It is not a record of ownership. So, if the car had been bought by your spouse or parent rather than you and they had allowed you to use it & register it at DVLA then it would not have been your car.

If you had genuinely sold the car before you drove it & were stopped then - from what you say - it appears that you were insured. Your problem will be to convince the police that you actually had sold it - particularly as you presumably did not receive any cash for it & had not sent off the change of ownership form to DVLA.

[themas]

My previous post should have made clear the first para. was hypothetical, because you have said it was you who bought the car, not anyone else.

A further thought. It seems likely that the police check showed no insurance on the car. If you had sold the car before being stopped then should the new owner not have insured it? Th police may want to enquire into this. Has he insured it now?

[ps5108]

The HO/RT1 does not need to be signed and the 'Check Only' means the Officr is just asking for the person at the Police Station to check whether the insurance you produce covers you to drive the vehicle you were stopped in. You will have to show that there was an insurance policy in force at the time you were stopped, covering you to drive the vehicle you were in at the time. I'm afraid it looks like the policy you have for another car does not cover you for the car you were driving. However, contact those insurers, ask if they consider you to be covered by them and, if they say 'Yes', get them to put it in writing to you and produce that at the Police Station.