500 a year die in state custody in England and Wales

[Gromit]

Between 500 and 600 people die every year in state custody in England and Wales, a report due out later will say.

They cover deaths in prisons, police cells, secure hospitals and other establishments and include those from natural causes, suicides and murders.

Pauline Campbell, whose daughter Sarah died in custody, said: "I think prisons are overwhelmed. They're being used as social dustbins for people who are mentally ill, drug and alcohol dependents, the homeless and so on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7005556.stm

Is the figure alarmingly high and a disgrace?

or

Just what you would expect when our prisons are overflowing?

[Reverandfunk]

Dont really care to be honest. Shouldn't be inside in the first place.

[Trotbot]

The important question is not 'is the 500-600 a disgrace', but rather 'are the x preventable deaths a disgrace?'

The inclusion of natural causes is unhelpful, as it just makes the number larger and therefore more attention grabbing. It must be assumed that people would have died anyway,

It is difficult to stop people killing others or commiting suicide. Was enough done to minimise the chances, particularly the vulnerable (e.g. first time in prison, on remand). Statistics of this nature don't provide any answers

[Supernick]

To be honest, those volumes don't seem overly high. How many people do we currently have in prison alone? Is it around the 80,000 mark? I can't even begin to calulate how many people pass through cells in a year, but it must be a huge figure.
I'd be interested in a breakdown of how they died, but I think a lot of them will be vulnerable physically through drink and drugs, and more likely to die than your averge citizen

[stokemaveric]

reverend funk you took the words out of my mouth........

[China Doll]

I think the better question would be 'do all those people need to be in prison'? actually Grom's.

There was an article I read recently in the Independant (one of those commentator type things) that was saying how prison doesn't always work and that a better way is needed.

Would take a brave person to think of a better way and then get it past the lock 'em up and throw away the key brigade!

[WoWo]

As has been said, I think you can pretty much assume that a large proportion of those deaths are simply natural.

Current prison poulation (as of this week) is 80,937, if you assume that level is pretty much constant throught the year 500-600 accounts for less than 1% of those people, I'd even say it sounds a bit of a low number to me.

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, like i have said before in previous posts.
The prisons are full, but full of the right people.
To ease the pressure on overcrowding, prisoners should be shipped out to work 12 hour shifts doing community work.
Whether its cleaning graffiti off a wall, picking choddy up off the floor or even shipped to another country to help out with humanitarian crisis's or to africa or something building huts.
Some people cant be rehabilitated and unfortunately prison is the only option.
The fact that people say prisons arent working is because they get it too easy, so for some, its like a holiday.
When i am in power...

[Oneeyedvic]

Does it occur to ReverandFunk or StokeMaveric that these figures include people put in prison cells - and that not everyone who has been put in prison cells have actually committed a crime?

[warpig3]

This is the daughter of an Aber, read it ad then decide is prison was the best place for her.

http://uffc-annex.moonfruit.com/petrablanksby/ 4514384346

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, just read it, my condolences to the family, but i think she would have done it anyway, regardless of whether she was in prison or not...

[paulos66]

MrBen, I'd suggest you change your travel agent

[warpig3]

Agreed Mrben, but was prison the best place for her, I don't think so, if anything, it may only have hastened her suicide.

[MrBen5]

I dunno really warpig, i dont the details of the case...

[warpig3]

Basically, as I understand it, she was in prison because she tried to set fire to herself, she was charged with 'arson with intent' and placed on remand. This is just once case of many, to me it seems, given her history, that a secure medical institution would have been better equiped to deal with her problems. That is not to say that the conclusion of her life would have been any different, sadly.

[warpig3]

Sorry, meant Petra's case is one case of many.

[MrBen5]

Maybe she got sent to prison because she endangered other people also.
If the courts have no knowledge of her mental state, then i suppose they have to treat her as an 'average' criminal.
I totally agree, a secure mental hospital would have been sufficient for her, but i feel that there must have been more to the case for her to be sent to prison.

[LoftyLottie]

Revfunk/Stokemaverick - If a member of your family were imprisoned, either on remand or for something fairly minor, or were in fact innocent, I suppose you wouldn't care then if they commited suicide or were murdered by another inmate.

One of the deaths was a 14 year old boy in a youth remand centre who hanged himself!!!

There but for the grace of god go you or I.

[Dassie]

Simple answer. Go back in time and ship them off to a deserted island where they can stay out of law abiding peoples ways. Then we won't even have to have prisons and warders. Would save a lot of taxpayers money!

[Scylax]

A 1% mortality rate in prisons appears to be less
than that of the general population. Ergo, prison
is good for you ?

Many, many more prisons should have been built
many, many years ago. The Yanks know the score
and build accordingly. The philosophy is, prison may
not be rehabilitative, but it is certainly incapacitating.

Prison Officers do a great job. Someone once said,
'Never has so much been owed by so many to
so few'. Put it on record : I'm grateful.........