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Back Pay & The Law? [NHS - Agenda for Change Project]
Hi there,
The NHS (Scotland) has been undergoing a pay restructure that came into force in Ooctober 04 (im quite sure it happened in England too).
It has been a long drawn out process, severely behind schedule - and hence, when they "get round" to Assimilating you to your new pay band - they have to back pay you any monies due.
I left the NHS after 4 weeks notice on 7th December. Much to my annoyance, the rest of the people with the same job as me got their letters dated 4th december saying their jobs had been matched, explained what it had been matched at, the difference in salary (if any) etc - and informed that they woudl receive backpay within 3 months.
Then i hear that they all got approx �3k back pay - but as i had handed my notice in, i have been placed to the bottom of the pile - and will most likely not receive my backpay for a numberof years now (given the timescales and setbacksit taken them to match current post holders).
Is there any law around this? I am ofcourse going to write to my Agenda for Change project team requesting my back payment, if i dont receive any decent responsre i am going to involve my local MP - but i would just like to know if anyone knows the law regarding this, after all, the money is mine - they are just taking an age to sort it out!
many thanks,
Neil
The NHS (Scotland) has been undergoing a pay restructure that came into force in Ooctober 04 (im quite sure it happened in England too).
It has been a long drawn out process, severely behind schedule - and hence, when they "get round" to Assimilating you to your new pay band - they have to back pay you any monies due.
I left the NHS after 4 weeks notice on 7th December. Much to my annoyance, the rest of the people with the same job as me got their letters dated 4th december saying their jobs had been matched, explained what it had been matched at, the difference in salary (if any) etc - and informed that they woudl receive backpay within 3 months.
Then i hear that they all got approx �3k back pay - but as i had handed my notice in, i have been placed to the bottom of the pile - and will most likely not receive my backpay for a numberof years now (given the timescales and setbacksit taken them to match current post holders).
Is there any law around this? I am ofcourse going to write to my Agenda for Change project team requesting my back payment, if i dont receive any decent responsre i am going to involve my local MP - but i would just like to know if anyone knows the law regarding this, after all, the money is mine - they are just taking an age to sort it out!
many thanks,
Neil
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Hi Neil,
I was the Agenda for Change Co-ordinator for a hospital and I know that they did drag their feet a little with leavers as obviously the idea was to get those on staff paid.However the Trust was also in a bad financial position and I suspect that also had something to do with it.
I advised a few leavers at the time to contact Payroll directly regarding the wait they'd had as it was not something HR or the AfC office could process as it had moved to the next stage. Of those that contacted Payroll directly most got paid very quickly and I think one person even suggested that if this continued they'd be speaking to their solicitor about lost interest on the money they were owed. That's the only time that I had ever heard of anyone thinking about involving the law (and I'm really not sure how viable that would have been).
Good Luck.
I was the Agenda for Change Co-ordinator for a hospital and I know that they did drag their feet a little with leavers as obviously the idea was to get those on staff paid.However the Trust was also in a bad financial position and I suspect that also had something to do with it.
I advised a few leavers at the time to contact Payroll directly regarding the wait they'd had as it was not something HR or the AfC office could process as it had moved to the next stage. Of those that contacted Payroll directly most got paid very quickly and I think one person even suggested that if this continued they'd be speaking to their solicitor about lost interest on the money they were owed. That's the only time that I had ever heard of anyone thinking about involving the law (and I'm really not sure how viable that would have been).
Good Luck.
I retired Sept 06. Still waiting for the back pay owed to me under Agenda for Change. I suspect that by the time income tax/n.i. etc etc has been taken out of it, then it won't be worth very much anyway. Have you noticed that the minions are all downgraded - whereas the Managers are upgraded??? I've spent hours and hours filling out the 48 page odd job job matching profile and attending the Agenda for Change Project Team for interview - all to no avail.
Whereas in my second part-time, out of hours job the 'day' girls were all upgraded, the 'out of hours' girls were all downgraded. Out of hours people have so much more responsibility - regardless of their job description. Managers are supposed to be always available, but its strange that their mobiles are always switched off after 5.00pm and all emergencies have to be dealt with by us minions as we can't contact the management team. I love the NHS and I think we are so lucky to live in Britain and (theoretically) don't have to worry about health care. But the manner in which they treat the NHS employees - who are not 'qualified' is appalling. I've always considered that the NHS runs on the good will of its people, but I am aware that this good will is being very very strained.
Whereas in my second part-time, out of hours job the 'day' girls were all upgraded, the 'out of hours' girls were all downgraded. Out of hours people have so much more responsibility - regardless of their job description. Managers are supposed to be always available, but its strange that their mobiles are always switched off after 5.00pm and all emergencies have to be dealt with by us minions as we can't contact the management team. I love the NHS and I think we are so lucky to live in Britain and (theoretically) don't have to worry about health care. But the manner in which they treat the NHS employees - who are not 'qualified' is appalling. I've always considered that the NHS runs on the good will of its people, but I am aware that this good will is being very very strained.
The thing about the AfC project was that it was a really good idea in theory encouraging partnership working with the unions, putting all staff on the same payscale and taking away any personal aspect of jobs and just evaluating the actual job itself regardless of the person doing it. And actually most staff did see some sort of rise in their pay, not everyone got downgraded.
Unfortunately it became a management tool. If you know how to use the profiles then anyone can write a job description to the exact specifications and payscale they want. I've seen it happen a lot, all you have to do is remember the magic words '...Or equivelant experience...' when putting the essential qualification down. I'm sure it's how half of the higher management/middle management got the salaries they're on. I mean Specialty Managers on bands 7 and 8? Are you kidding me? They're glorifed schedulers. (Before I get screamed at by any specialty managers, the ones at my Trust are and were). So those that knew how to manipulate the system (management) always could. And those in influence who shouted loudest when their staff were (fairly) put on a band that they did not consider high enough were also able to manipulate it.
And admin staff really suffered as well although I can't say I disagree with the notion that you don't need a degree to do an admin job. However as most band 4 admin staff are aware the salaries reflecting what they do are woefully inadequate.
Lindy, you mentioned 48 pages... does that mean you got a JAQ then? Because what you completed was not for panel matching to a profile.
Unfortunately it became a management tool. If you know how to use the profiles then anyone can write a job description to the exact specifications and payscale they want. I've seen it happen a lot, all you have to do is remember the magic words '...Or equivelant experience...' when putting the essential qualification down. I'm sure it's how half of the higher management/middle management got the salaries they're on. I mean Specialty Managers on bands 7 and 8? Are you kidding me? They're glorifed schedulers. (Before I get screamed at by any specialty managers, the ones at my Trust are and were). So those that knew how to manipulate the system (management) always could. And those in influence who shouted loudest when their staff were (fairly) put on a band that they did not consider high enough were also able to manipulate it.
And admin staff really suffered as well although I can't say I disagree with the notion that you don't need a degree to do an admin job. However as most band 4 admin staff are aware the salaries reflecting what they do are woefully inadequate.
Lindy, you mentioned 48 pages... does that mean you got a JAQ then? Because what you completed was not for panel matching to a profile.
Plus from the start it was dreadfully underfunded by those in white shirts and added an increase in running costs to hospitals/Trusts who were already suffering severely under financial pressures. It's no wonder payments have been delayed as a result by Financial Directors desperately trying to get the books to balance. Foundation hospitals I think did not suffer so much but certainly ours did. I think that it was great for the staff who did receive an increase but it should have been obvious to the bean counters that this was going to cost significantly more than was anticipated and take longer than was given. And don't even get me started on the resources... I remain the only person in the Trust who was actually employed work on that project Monday - Friday 9am - 5pm. Which was not an easy task in itself.
Anyway, mini rant over, sorry Neil. :c)
Anyway, mini rant over, sorry Neil. :c)
Hi Neil,
I sympathize with your situation as, having been finally assimilated in January, I have now been told it could be December before I get my back pay. Originally we were told that we would DEFINATELY get our back pay 3 MONTHS after having received our assimlation letters. I was wondering is there any documentation about the 3 month limit for back pay? I've scanned everything I can get my hands on but can't seem to find anything.
I haven't been any help to you and your situation but, like I say, I sympatize greatly. Think of all the interest on that money!
Anyway if you have that info I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
I sympathize with your situation as, having been finally assimilated in January, I have now been told it could be December before I get my back pay. Originally we were told that we would DEFINATELY get our back pay 3 MONTHS after having received our assimlation letters. I was wondering is there any documentation about the 3 month limit for back pay? I've scanned everything I can get my hands on but can't seem to find anything.
I haven't been any help to you and your situation but, like I say, I sympatize greatly. Think of all the interest on that money!
Anyway if you have that info I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
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