Road rules2 mins ago
Should he accept the ABH caution?
5 Answers
My brother has recently been accused of ABH (scalding) by a girl at his work. He is an assistant manager of a pub and, during a busy evening, was having to deal with numerous complaints from customers (due to a terrible chef).
Anyway, one of the waitresses came into the kitchen as he was trying to sort out the chef and began interrupting him in a rude manner and complaining at him. He lost his temper and threw an empty cardboard lasagne pot (not directly at her - he did not aim it at her but it went in her general direction) - it did not hit the waitress.
Later that evening she complained that she had been scalded by the lasagne pot (but did not fill out an accident form or seek medical attention for it).
The next day, she went to the police and accused him of ABH. The police have spoken to my brother, and although they have insinuated that they think it is ridiculous, say that they should be seen to be doing something and have offered him a formal caution for ABH.
His work has now suspended him and he is at risk of being sacked (as the girl says that she will not come back to work if he does .... and she wants some compensation).
We have been reading up on accepting cautions and realise that by accepting it he is accepting his guilt. This was an accident (admittedly a stupid temper tantrum) but surely not a matter for the police? Should he accept the caution? What should he do?
Oh, and to make matters worse, his girlfriend is 9 months pregnant at the moment!
Anyway, one of the waitresses came into the kitchen as he was trying to sort out the chef and began interrupting him in a rude manner and complaining at him. He lost his temper and threw an empty cardboard lasagne pot (not directly at her - he did not aim it at her but it went in her general direction) - it did not hit the waitress.
Later that evening she complained that she had been scalded by the lasagne pot (but did not fill out an accident form or seek medical attention for it).
The next day, she went to the police and accused him of ABH. The police have spoken to my brother, and although they have insinuated that they think it is ridiculous, say that they should be seen to be doing something and have offered him a formal caution for ABH.
His work has now suspended him and he is at risk of being sacked (as the girl says that she will not come back to work if he does .... and she wants some compensation).
We have been reading up on accepting cautions and realise that by accepting it he is accepting his guilt. This was an accident (admittedly a stupid temper tantrum) but surely not a matter for the police? Should he accept the caution? What should he do?
Oh, and to make matters worse, his girlfriend is 9 months pregnant at the moment!
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If the facts are as you describe them there is no prospect of a successful prosecution for ABH. There has to be some proof of bodily harm (which it seems there is not) and also some proof of intent (which again seems to be lacking).
ABH is a serious offence for which the sentencing guidelines show a starting point of custody. One would have to question why the police should see fit to issue a caution for such an offence. The answer is probably that the CPS would not sanction such �over charging� (if they would sanction any charge at all) and it is a way for the police to show a serious crime cleared up successfully.
Accepting a caution is an easy way for the police to deal with this alleged crime. They have to do no investigation or case preparation and it shows as a �solved crime� on their statistics. For your brother the consequences are a little less straightforward. The matter will show on any criminal record check he has done and this may harm his future employment or travel prospects. More importantly he will be admitting to a crime which he did not commit.
Again, going on the facts as you describe them, there seems little evidence to support any criminal proceedings. Your brother should refuse to accept the caution but continue to cooperate with the police in their enquiries. He should also take proper legal advice at an early stage so that he can examine the evidence which is held against him before deciding how to proceed.
ABH is a serious offence for which the sentencing guidelines show a starting point of custody. One would have to question why the police should see fit to issue a caution for such an offence. The answer is probably that the CPS would not sanction such �over charging� (if they would sanction any charge at all) and it is a way for the police to show a serious crime cleared up successfully.
Accepting a caution is an easy way for the police to deal with this alleged crime. They have to do no investigation or case preparation and it shows as a �solved crime� on their statistics. For your brother the consequences are a little less straightforward. The matter will show on any criminal record check he has done and this may harm his future employment or travel prospects. More importantly he will be admitting to a crime which he did not commit.
Again, going on the facts as you describe them, there seems little evidence to support any criminal proceedings. Your brother should refuse to accept the caution but continue to cooperate with the police in their enquiries. He should also take proper legal advice at an early stage so that he can examine the evidence which is held against him before deciding how to proceed.
She did not complain of any injury at the time. She did not react when the lasagne pot landed (several witnesses agree to this). She left the building and went outside with the chef (who was the one who caused all the tension in the first place). About 1/2 hour later she re-entered and complained that she had been scalded and left to go home - I am unsure of the facts here. Apparently the next day she went down to the police station with images of scalding on her arm.
The lasagne pot was empty (although he cannot be certain that there wasn't any juice in there).
It just seems daft to me that such a small thing has been made such a big issue.
Yes - he did toss the empty pot (onto the side)
Yes - it was in her general direction
Yes - he threw the pot whilst cross
However
- the pot was empty (it could have had a little juice in; no-one is sure)
- the girl did not react when the pot landed near her
A caution for ABH sounds like such a serious thing. ABH is something that you would imagine someone, physically attacking or deliberately injuring someone.
He is quite likely to lose his job over this and it just seems ridiculous to me.
Thank you for your responses so far.
The lasagne pot was empty (although he cannot be certain that there wasn't any juice in there).
It just seems daft to me that such a small thing has been made such a big issue.
Yes - he did toss the empty pot (onto the side)
Yes - it was in her general direction
Yes - he threw the pot whilst cross
However
- the pot was empty (it could have had a little juice in; no-one is sure)
- the girl did not react when the pot landed near her
A caution for ABH sounds like such a serious thing. ABH is something that you would imagine someone, physically attacking or deliberately injuring someone.
He is quite likely to lose his job over this and it just seems ridiculous to me.
Thank you for your responses so far.
What a b###h!
Does she have burns? She would of had to prove this to the police by going down there and having photos taken.
If there is no evidence then there is no case. Its simply a matter of his word against hers!
NO I don't think he should except this rediculous caution what so ever! It will stay on his record and if he got into trouble again then the caution would get bought up and he'd be in deep poo! He needs to stand his ground, be apologetic for the object going in her direction but not for burning her!
Hope he gets his job sorted.
Does she have burns? She would of had to prove this to the police by going down there and having photos taken.
If there is no evidence then there is no case. Its simply a matter of his word against hers!
NO I don't think he should except this rediculous caution what so ever! It will stay on his record and if he got into trouble again then the caution would get bought up and he'd be in deep poo! He needs to stand his ground, be apologetic for the object going in her direction but not for burning her!
Hope he gets his job sorted.
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