Passports

[jackthehat]

I had a conversation yesterday with an acquaintance who was quite upset. A close family member is quite poorly and the expectation is that he will die. This person lives in Australia. Jane would like to fly to Oz sometime soon. She doesn't want to make the long, sad journey alone. However, Jane's partner, John, doesn't have a current passport. He is reluctant to apply for a new one because of all of the new biometric data, etc. Apparently, for some years now he has been living 'under the radar'; I rather think that he doesn't trouble the tax man.........(although don't quote me on that). As the customs and revenue are now amalgamated he worries that as he steps off the plane at Heathrow, he may get a tap on the shoulder and asked to step into a small room.......... Can any of you knowledgable folks give me the likelihood of this happening ? P.S. Please don't shoot the messenger. :o)

[sara3]

if there is a warrant out for his arrest, I believe this could well happen.

if he's never had an adult passport in the UK he will need a face-to-face interview with the UKPA.

[jackthehat]

Thanks, Sara.

He has had an adult passport. He's just never felt the need to re-new it. And he's a little panicky that as 'all' the computers are liked, now (are they ?) that he'll get 'tugged'.

[sara3]

I don't know that one, sorry.

can't his partner travel with a friend? it would be a shame if she gets there too late..

[jackthehat]

Sorry, that should be 'linked'.

Both Jane and John really want to go but it's this problem that he wants to resolve first.
She's upset that her relative is dying; she's cross with John for creating added difficulties; she's worried that if he does get a passport, he might get taken to one side as soon as they get back into the country after a long, emotional flight back.
He's frantic thinking that Jane might not fly because of him and miss the chance to say goodbye.
They can barely scrape the air-fare together themselves and it wouldn't really be feasible to drag a friend half-way round the world for a very personal visit.
I felt so sorry for her yesterday. All she was getting from other sources was conspiracy theories...........

[sara3]

I'm sure someone will come along with a better answer :o)

[sprayer]

Even without the biometric data you still run the risk of being asked to "step into a small room" as I found out on a recent weekend to Amsterdam recently, Many years ago in the 70s I worked as an engineer on board a pirate radio station that got into difficulties and all on board was evacuated to Scheveningen (Den-Haag) Holland where I spent the night in the cells and was deported with a big red stamp in my passport as "an undesirable alien",
Now several decades and many passports on, Upon getting off the ferry at the hook of Holland my name for some unknown reason was checked on their computer, I was pulled to one side, and asked to explain why I had been previously been deported from Holland, I was only detained for about 20 minutes before common sense prevailed and I was allowed to continue my visit, I just could not believe after all these years my name was still on their files.

[jackthehat]

Perhaps the 'conspiracy theorists' are right, then ? :o)

[ReallyLegend]

I think he just has to take the risk for the sake of his partner.At the end of the day IF he has done something illegal then he will have to answer for that , as is only right.Everyone has to pay taxes and if you dont then you will have to have a very good reason why.

Surely his main concern should be his partner ?And worry about facing any consequences if and when they arise.

[jackthehat]

As I've been at pains to point out, Legend, whatever the situation is, he must answer to that not least in his own conscience. He doesn't strike me as being particularly 'fly'.
I'm more concerned about the likely impact on his partner in ths situation.

[ReallyLegend]

But jack he will need to apply for a passport immediately if he has any intention of going.The longer he debates the pros and cons the less likely he can even go.Perhaps that's his intention?
The bottom line is he needs to apply and if there's any problem he will find out well before the airport.After all he will need to provide his address and a signature from a witness to say he is who he says and that with his signature will be alll they need if such government bodies are indeed after him.I very much doubt if hes wanted he would be given a passport anyway.
In that case he wont be able to go.

So sooner he gets his cash and photos and applies the sooner he will know really.

[jackthehat]

That was my thought, too.

However, they have now progressed from 'what if I don't get one' to 'what if I do.........and fly all the way to Oz with a knot in my stomach about what will happen when I get back ?'

Most of the assembled crowd told her that he ought to 'come clean' but that doesn't really help...........

[ReallyLegend]

Jackie ffs the guy needs a slap.The more you type it seems to me as a guy , that hes stalling , for whatever reason, it could take a fortnight or even much longer depending on when he applies .If the person has possibly less than a month then there's only one course of action to take that is to apply asap for a passport.
No excuses.Unless hes lord Lucian or shergar then if he gets a passport i reckon he will be safe.

Tell him as long as hes clean shaven , not called Mohamed, doesn't wear a heavy winter coat on the flight and doesn't mention Allah then hes probably not gonna be on the most wanted list at Heathrow.

Personally , and i hope I'm wrong , but without knowing the exact details it looks like hes stalling and wont be able to go because he lacks a valid passport.

[ummmm312]

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that he's been avoiding paying tax?

If so, how can they prove that just from his passport?

[jackthehat]

Let's assume that he's NOT paying tax...............

The Customs (i.e. dealing with passports AND passport control) are now linked with the Inland Revenue (i.e. Revenue and Customs) so, if he (with his bright new shiny bio-metric and 50-odd questions of information held on Government databases) passes through, or is on the passenger booking manifest, at customs will the computer flag his name 'as a person of interest' or something.

I really don't want to get into a debate as to whether he ought to be pulled in............just the likelihood OF him being pulled in.

Again, whether he is stalling or not...............it might just be an interesting question to have answered by someone who can say for sure.

[ummmm312]

Very very unlikely.

He could be a house husband for all they know. They really have much bigger fish to fry.

[themas]

I think the likelihood of him getting pulled over depends on something we don't know - i.e. what is it that he's done wrong?

If it is that he is working & not paying tax HMRC may not even know that that is the case & it seems pretty unlikely to me that he would be on a Customs list to be pulled over.

On the other hand if he has committed a criminal offence and absconded from justice he is much more likely to be on a list.

I don't think you are going to get a definite answer - there is just not enough information.

[jackthehat]

Aaarghhh !

I as I understand it, the problem seems to lie solely with the fact that he and the Taxman are strangers.............nothing more than that.

But seeing as the general belief is that all governemt databases are somehow linked...........if the tighter travel rules have resulted in our faces and details being available at the push of a button or indeed databases cross-referencing and talking to each other.............that John Smith, Passport number xxxxxxxx, cross-referenced with National Insurance number xxxxxxxx might flag up on the customs computer and result in him getting pulled over.

No warrants, no criminal records...........nothing more than than I have explained.

I think the pressing nature of this trip to Oz has sent them into a flat spin and they are envisiging worst case scenarios everywhere........

[Skyline D]

This is just complete nonsense.

The guy exists. He has a birth certificate and presumably a national insurance number. Unless he's faked his own death at some point the HMRC already KNOW he exists. They just apparently think he isn't working. I'm sure they could trace him if they really wanted to. If he has a bank account they could do it that way. Council tax records, etc. If they want to find him they'll find him. Since his wife presumably isn't "off radar" he's traceable through her if nothng else.

Whether he has a passport or not therefore won't make them any more or less likely to find him if they want to do so. If they have no reason to be looking for him now, having a passport won't give them one.

[jackthehat]

Thanks, I think !

Whether or not it is nonsense was precisely the issue I am trying to establish.

I suppose his point is that as he is keeping a low profile he won't know if they are looking for him.........right until the point where they find him !

And he fears that he may be almost 'handing himself over' if he travels.

[factor-fiction]

Spot on, skyline. This thread had been puzzling me. Maybe this isn't the real reason- maybe he is frightened of flying, maybe he knows he wouldn't be allowed in to Australia for some past offence, or maybe he isn't a bona-fide British citizen. If I was his wife I'd be asking him 'if you won't get a passport then does that mean you'll never go on a foreign holiday with me?'