ChatterBank0 min ago
employment contracts /pay
I am a sessional teacher for a local authority which means I am hourly paid only for the hours that I work (24 per week) During the recent bad weather I and other colleagues were told not to go to school as they were shut. We have just been told that we will not be paid . Is this correct? Neighbouring authorities are paying their staff . After some emailing we have now been told we can work those lost hours in the future if we want paying. Is this correct proceedure? Because we are classed as part time we have always found difficulty finding a suitable union to join . Thank you
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This is my opinion - though I am happy to engage in a discussion because it think it is a grey area.
The key thing about your situation (which is different from many other employees who were caught up in the snow) is that the EMPLOYER decided to close the premises. You were thus 'laid-off' for one day. In employment law, unless there is something in your employment contract about lay-offs (unlikely), or there is an industry-wide national agreement that applies (it doesn't in teaching), then the employer has to pay you. Otherwise it would be an unlawful deduction of wages.
Your situation is thus not the same as so many people who could make it in, but whose premises remained open (if rather thin on the ground). They do not get paid or have to take a day's holiday.
HOWEVER, you say that you are a sessional teacher. Do you work the same days/hours each week? - or are you what I call a 'supply teacher' who is engaged on an 'as needs' daily basis? If the former, I think you are on safe grounds. If the latter, I wonder what notice period of engagement / disengagement you are on?
Lastly, though it is my opinion that you probably have a right to be paid for that day, in terms of flexibility on both sides, you could consider offering to work the lost hours on another occasion as a goodwill gesture on your part (note my wording - it is your consession) - it perhaps depends what sort of relationship you have / expect from the management - and whether some give-and-take forms part of that relationship.
The key thing about your situation (which is different from many other employees who were caught up in the snow) is that the EMPLOYER decided to close the premises. You were thus 'laid-off' for one day. In employment law, unless there is something in your employment contract about lay-offs (unlikely), or there is an industry-wide national agreement that applies (it doesn't in teaching), then the employer has to pay you. Otherwise it would be an unlawful deduction of wages.
Your situation is thus not the same as so many people who could make it in, but whose premises remained open (if rather thin on the ground). They do not get paid or have to take a day's holiday.
HOWEVER, you say that you are a sessional teacher. Do you work the same days/hours each week? - or are you what I call a 'supply teacher' who is engaged on an 'as needs' daily basis? If the former, I think you are on safe grounds. If the latter, I wonder what notice period of engagement / disengagement you are on?
Lastly, though it is my opinion that you probably have a right to be paid for that day, in terms of flexibility on both sides, you could consider offering to work the lost hours on another occasion as a goodwill gesture on your part (note my wording - it is your consession) - it perhaps depends what sort of relationship you have / expect from the management - and whether some give-and-take forms part of that relationship.
ta for your reply - you seem to know this area. I work the same hours and sessions each week for the duration of the academic year ie 33 sessions , the same classe at the same times each week . the contract says Ill be paid for these sessions . Have now been given the opportunity to make up these hours. There is very little goodwill on their side , my main focus is upon my students and my pay. Have a feeling there is little I can do in law. ta for your time
No legal background at all but is employment in this case not based on the school actually being open. It appears roboanna isn't paid and doesn't get any hours outwith term time so I would have thought it follows on the same if the school is closed for additional time within the academic year?
Is this a school that gets closed and used as a polling station on election days or any other similar one off holidays? If so what happens then? Do you get paid, get nothing or get to make up hours? This ought to be treated the same presumably.
Is this a school that gets closed and used as a polling station on election days or any other similar one off holidays? If so what happens then? Do you get paid, get nothing or get to make up hours? This ought to be treated the same presumably.
Yes, Skyline, this is what I was trying to discover.
I think it depends the way your contract is written. If you are paid hourly, yet it says you work 11 sessions per term each session of x hours, but it doesn't specify when the sessions will occur in the term, then they would probably be able to call the shots on when the sessions are. So if they have removed one, they owe you one session (not dribs and drabs of extra hour here and there at their beck-and-call, to make up the missed session).
I think that I am really saying, it depends on how far you want to push this - it was definitely wrong that they tried to deny you pay - because that is definitely unlawful deduction of wages - you were ready and willing to come in but they closed your workplace. The employer now seems to have realised this (or hasn't realised the legal implication but just thinks it would be unfair), so you aren't losing pay anymore. If you travel a fair distance to work, it may suit you to tag the odd hour onto an existing session to make up the hours - rather than demand one whole extra session.
However if your contract clearly states you will be paid for x sessions per week, or 24 hours per week or whatever, that appears to tie down the employer on that lost day, you could keep soldiering on. I understand you comment about goodwill - but sometimes it is better to consider the broader picture of your role / how you are valued / whether it is better to chalk this one up as a future negotiation point.
I think it depends the way your contract is written. If you are paid hourly, yet it says you work 11 sessions per term each session of x hours, but it doesn't specify when the sessions will occur in the term, then they would probably be able to call the shots on when the sessions are. So if they have removed one, they owe you one session (not dribs and drabs of extra hour here and there at their beck-and-call, to make up the missed session).
I think that I am really saying, it depends on how far you want to push this - it was definitely wrong that they tried to deny you pay - because that is definitely unlawful deduction of wages - you were ready and willing to come in but they closed your workplace. The employer now seems to have realised this (or hasn't realised the legal implication but just thinks it would be unfair), so you aren't losing pay anymore. If you travel a fair distance to work, it may suit you to tag the odd hour onto an existing session to make up the hours - rather than demand one whole extra session.
However if your contract clearly states you will be paid for x sessions per week, or 24 hours per week or whatever, that appears to tie down the employer on that lost day, you could keep soldiering on. I understand you comment about goodwill - but sometimes it is better to consider the broader picture of your role / how you are valued / whether it is better to chalk this one up as a future negotiation point.
ta for your replies. I was stopped from going to school for most of the week ( i worked my two classes on Mon) got an email Tues pm to say school was closed. I was on my way to work when I had to abandon the car and make my way back home. It is only when I challenged their decision (re contract hours) that I was told I could make the 18 hours up by taking extra lessons. I suppose my colleagues and myself are moire upset about the coldness of an employer we have worked for for many years without a single day's absence . Think we should band together and join a good union.I teach five subjects (English A ,GCSE levels and literacy and numeracy to adults all for the same council across three locations. Just feel undervalued given that neighbouring councils have paid their employees in similar situations. Now looking to move jods. Sad really. Ta for "listening"
You could join a Union or continue to get decent advice on here.
Whilst I am not anti-Union, I believe they provide a service to the lowest common denominator and not the highest common multiple. Since you teach numeracy you will probably get my drift. Those that can look after themselves do this, those that can't need to invest some of their hard-earned cash on membership.
Working for the public sector can be a pain. There are some good managers in there, but they aren't spread thickly enough on the ground. So managers who make stupid decisions continue not to get found out and continue to fumble along.
Whilst I am not anti-Union, I believe they provide a service to the lowest common denominator and not the highest common multiple. Since you teach numeracy you will probably get my drift. Those that can look after themselves do this, those that can't need to invest some of their hard-earned cash on membership.
Working for the public sector can be a pain. There are some good managers in there, but they aren't spread thickly enough on the ground. So managers who make stupid decisions continue not to get found out and continue to fumble along.
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