E.U. Constitution. Again!

[bruce5755]

After yet another No vote from the people of The Netherlands, do any other people feel that the governments of most of the countries that make up the E.U. dont realise that, they are not getting the message across to the public about what they are really voting for.  I feel that most of the public dont have a clue, no-one has made it clear to me what its all about!  It seems that M.E.P's are living on a different planet where poverty and unemployment don't exist.  They really need to get down to grass roots and discover that the NO vote has come about because people dont want to be controlled by one governing body, telling them how straight their bananas and cucumbers have to be, or that you cant call it ice-cream any more because it isn't!

Basically I believe that "Joe Public" just dont understand, not because they are stupid, but because we feel so uninformed of the consequences.  And thats the governments fault!  If a referendum were to be held here, I think it would also be a resounding NO because it is now turning into a popular revolution! 

[Zen]

MEP does that stand for More expenses Please ?
Quite agree with your statement,i would love the opportunity to vote against the Constitution in vote against anything to do with the whole corrupt thing that the EU has become as well as a home for failed politicians,Mandelson,Kinnock,Brittain,Patten
to name but 4.
Who is your MEP,can't tell you who mine is,keeps a very low profile indeed.

[Didwot]

OK so since my earlier question I have downloades a copy of the constitution, and am diligently reading it. I have skimmed through the whole thing, and am now taking my time, but on a careful reading have not got very far.
My overall impression os that it is a mis- mash of high sentiments, and fine words, but really says very little of substance. No wonder different people object to it for different reasons

[Didwot]

Well I have read a bit more, and the provisions abbout a President, common foreign policy, common currency common borders etc does make it all look rather superstate.
Personally I would vote for a superstate Europe if it were made in my image, but not if it were made in my neighbour's image.

[Hippy]

Bearing in mind that the Common Market (Treaty of Rome) then the European Economic Community (Treaty of Maastricht), and now the European Community (Treaty of absolutely nowhere, but predicted by Maastricht) stared as attempts at bringing the nations of Europe closer, and to harmonise trading standards and eventually economic affairs, then this latest twist seems most counter productive.

For centuries the various big tribes in and around Europe (as a geographical area) have either been at war with each other or at best simmering discontent. The Common Market idea was an attempt to put a stop to all this fighting and build a better society after the ashes of World War II. This present attempt at a common constitution has alienated people from the European (as a political alliance) idea, as each thinks that their individuality is to be removed and replaced by an uncontrollable, unaccountable, wastefully bureaucratic and possibly corrupt dictatorship that will demand obedience or obliteration.

Now where did they get that idea from? It sounds like xenophobic spin and rant to me. Surely the ideal of a closer association and common standards across Europe is a good thing in an economic cliamte of increased globalism where large groupings prosper?

[jno]

Hippy is right; the EU started as a means of tying, in particular, France and Germany so closely together that they wouldn't be able to afford to go to war again. Bruce5755, I don't know what your country is, but as I understand it, in those countries that have held a referendum the details of the constitution have been widely advertised. Unfortunately in France and Holland it would appear that rejection has been partly an attempt to slap unpopular governments in the face - so if attempts to bring Europe closer together fail it's because the French had got bored with Chirac (though they after all were the ones who elected him not that long ago). Hardly seems a very mature voting principle.

As I said in another thread, a weak Europe means a strong America, so the winner in all this is George Bush.

[brooklyn77]

I dont pretend to know exactly what the constitution will entail or what the result will be even if it does one day get through. But if anyone is in any doubt to what the last 5 years or so has been about, be under no illusion, France and Germany are bound together by a vision of essentially ruling Europe. Rulinf taxes, the army, interest rates, police and onwards...the constitution I think is just a way for those two countries to say "we want to thrust Europe into this and that and the constitution says we can or should". Like the U.S constitution and the citizen who says "its my right to bare arms" well France and Germany will say (in a subtlw way) its our right to tell Europe what to do..that kind of thing.

The U.K is promised this and that by the E.U but dont be fooled, France and Germany do not want the U.K at the head of anything. Of course I am talking about the Governments and not the people.

The E.U has already started implementng sections of the constitution, despite the No votes. And they want the UK to ditch its yearly rebate which would cost us millions and they want us to ditch our veto right. This we can not allow. We pay more into the EU every year than almost any other country. Why should we be made to pay back more by giving up the rebate?.

Anyhow the EU does want to rival the US ? Whatever is wrong with the US, most of europe has a good or ok relationship with the US. Why go against them? The only place in the world anywhere has to truely fear is the middle east, that is where we should be concentrating our efforts to bring peace. Its pathetic.

Besides if Switzerland can survive like it does without being in the EU and the UK has an economy to be envious of without being in the single currency, why do we need to have a constitution and be integrated into Europe even further, are we not all fine as things are?

[Hgrove]

The discussion in this thread may be of interest:

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question47217.html