Invited To Sickness Meeting - But Wrongly?

[buffymad]

Friend has received a letter from his employers saying they've noted his recent absence has hit the trigger point which means he needs to attend another meeting about his absences. This would be his third one.

Notwithstanding his absences aren't the best, the last absence (2 days) he assumed were being allowed as holiday. First day he phoned his line manager and asked for a day off as he was knackered following nearly a full week of overtime (including weekend). 2nd day his car broke down and he had to wait for AA and be towed to a garage etc. Again he phoned his line manager straight away to let him know what had happened.

Now if these were to be allowed as holidays, I'm assuming he wouldn't have actually hit the trigger point and therefore no meeting would be needed.

Do you think they'd allow that? As I say, he was under the assumption that it was coming out of his holidays rather than sickness.

He will obviously speak to HR on Monday but just thought I'd ask you legal eagles to see what you thought.

Thanks.

[woofgang]

Hmm "He asked" but you don't say that the manager agreed; and "he assumed"

Its not the law you want as there is no specific law to cover this, rather its in the policies of his employer and what the T and C's of his contract say. Frankly I don't like his chances.

[THECORBYLOON]

The first day of the absence he was too tired for work so he was unfit. Even if his line manager said it would be treated as leave, it may be that in light of previous sick absence, someone senior has decided otherwise. If someone is unfit for work, taking time off as leave is masking the problem.

[Hopkirk]

I find it odd personally that he is unfit for work, because he is too tired from doing overtime.

Surely he should just knock the overtime on the head.

[New Judge]

But, of course, he won't receive the extra pay if he knocks the overtime on the head. But he will get paid if he goes sick. [ cynical old me :-) ]

[buffymad]

I know where you're coming from but no, the overtime was insisted on by the "big" manager, he would have been frowned upon if he'd said he couldn't do it (which is what another colleague did and that's what happened to him). Strange place I tell you.

Truthfully the doctor signed him off with depression earlier this year but he sorted himself out enough to get back to work sooner rather than later.

His line manager agreed that he shouldn't come in on both days and was accepting of his phoning in to ask for time off. As for the car breaking down, he could've made his way into work by public transport once the car had been towed to a garage - but he wouldn't have got there until half way through the day and his firm doesnt allow half days! His line manager at the time said it's happened to him before and "see you tomorrow".

[buffymad]

PS he doesn't get paid when he's off sick.

[woofgang]

agreed that he shouldn't come in or agreed that he could take it as holiday?

[buffymad]

First day he asked if he could take the day off and line manager said yes. Second day was the car breaking down day so he kept him up to date every step of the way. Line manager said he'd see him the next day! So it wasn't actually spoken out loud but you'd think that would be the assumption. I agree he should've made it clear he was asking for those days as holiday (I woukd), but it's all a bit hazy with the understanding here. I suppose all he can do is contact them and explain all this and see what hapoens.

If he gets a final caution is that last chance saloon or do they get rid of you there and then? Sorry about this, woukd be much easier if he could lay his hands on the employment booklet which no doubt sets this all out!

[EDDIE51]

Has he had a formal written warning yet? I think there have to be two written warnings before the final one.

[woofgang]

By and large, there has to be what the company policy says there has to be.....

[baza]

Records of the other two interviews will have been kept, so the management are fully aware. Who will conduct this interview? If it is not his line manager, which it should not be, then a statement from his line manager needs to be obtained, this will then confirm or not sickness or holiday.
Sorry to be so long winded.

[buffymad]

Hmm he's had 2 meetings called before - should he have got a written warning after those meetings or is the letter calling the meeting enough?

Meeting is taking place with his line manager and a member of HR in attendance.

Was only querying coz my place for instance (large law firm so they know the law, ha!), have let people take days off like that as emergency leave (ie with short notice).

[baza]

After the last two meetings did he get a letter explaining what was agreed and the way forward ?. An ex employer of mine had a system whereby if you had a certain amount of time off it triggered the first interview, more time off in a set period would trigger the second. The third interview would be the final warning stage.
Not much help I'm afraid.