Does The Fact That 60% Of Births In Northern Ireland Are To Unmarried Mothers Suggest That We Are...

[sandyRoe]

...'swinging towards a promiscuous society'?
They're the words of a Free Presbyterian minister, Rev David McIlveen, who is a dour and stolid man who likely used 'swinging' here with no sense of irony.

"Overall, these figures are very sad, and reflect that we are swinging towards a promiscuous society," said Rev McIlveen.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/six-in-ten-northern-ireland-babies-are-now-born-outside-wedlock-31550726.html

[sandyRoe]

40% rather than 60%.

[RATTER15]

Many of these people are in long term relationships and just dont feel the need the addition of the legality of a marriage document. A legal agreement does little to hold people together.

I know, I divorced twice, its just a legal document, its love and commitment that holds people together not a legal document!

[Cloverjo]

When he says " 'we' are swinging towards a promiscuous society" does he mean NI or the UK? It's a trend that's repeated across so many parts of the country as a whole. I don't think think it means that people are more promiscuous, just that it is more acceptable to have babies without being married. Women are no longer shunned for for it, and thank goodness for that.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Free Presbyterian Minister Rev David McIlveen said the figures were a "tragedy" and added that too many young people cannot make a distinction between "love and lust". ///

Now let me try and get this right, if two people who are very much in 'love', and who happen not take certain precautions, then they are less likely to produce a child.

But if two people 'lust' after each other they produce children at an alarming rate?

[ummmm]

I have 3 children and I've never been married!

[RATTER15]

^^^scandalous Woman^^^!!!

[sandyRoe]

McIlveen is a dinosaur whose views wouldn't have been out of place in the 1930s.

[ummmm]

I know, Ratter, I'm not with their father either! Shocking :-)

[Cloverjo]

When I was at my sister's wedding 20 years ago, I was tutted and whispered about by her new mother-in-law to the vicar, as I had a child and wasn't married. The vicar replied that my "relationship was built on sand" whereas my sister's with her new husband was built on rock. Their marriage is now over, sadly.

[jomifl]

The catholic church is to blame obviously...to many priests with nothing to do now..:-)

[Peter Pedant]

no it makes you believe in the virgin birth dunnit

[sp1814]

I wonder whether the Campaign For Marriage will be addressing this.

Hmmm....

In answer to sandyRoe's question - it doesn't necessarily mean that people are now more promiscuous...it suggests that marriage is not seen by many as a precursor to having children.

It would be interesting to see figures on how many of these couples go on to wed. Or indeed, how many of these couples form a lasting relationship without getting married.

One final point - notice the strange language:

"40% of births in Northern Ireland are to unmarried mothers"

rather than:

"40% of births in Northern Ireland are to unmarried couples"

[andy-hughes]

The Christian religion has always had an unrealistic attitude towards marriage and children.

The notion that a couple are more likely to stay together if married with a child used to be the norm - because the scandal and approbation that an unmarried mother attracted made even an unhappy marriage the more attractive option.

The church firmly backed this notion - even the Catholic church who seem to ignore the notion of 'not making the rules if you don't play the game' - and unmarried priests would preach the blessings of marriage when they knew nothing at all about it.

In modern times, the pressure to be married, for a woman to be 'supported' by her husband has been consigned to the dustbin of history as women learn that independence is a positive plus, and nothing to be ashamed of.

Sadly, the church has failed to acknowledge this seismic shift in the society it claims to serve - even the use of the archaic phrase 'promiscuous society' shows how out of touch Rev. McIlveen is with what's going on around him.

If the church moved into modern times, and accepted the changes that have occurred, and women no longer have to suffer in marriages that are tantamount to flying in a plane because there are no parachutes so bailing out is fatal, it would go some way towards halting its inevitable decline and eventual fall.

[RATTER15]

SP "40% of births in Northern Ireland are to unmarried mothers" that is correct, because not all unmarried Mothers are in a relationship, so not a couple.

[ummmm]

They could say xyz % children are born to single women and xyz % are born to unmarried couples.

[Peter Pedant]

doesnt it show the fun loving Oirish like sex alot ?

[douglas9401]

Does the fact that so many are born outside wedlock not put massive strain on social housing in the suburbs of that town?

[ummmm]

Why so, Douglas?

[andy-hughes]

douglas - //Does the fact that so many are born outside wedlock not put massive strain on social housing in the suburbs of that town?//

The notion that young women become pregnant in order to obtain social housing was probably limited to a very few, but made to seem like the norm by a mischievous media - so no change there.

[sp1814]

douglas9401

You asked:

Does the fact that so many are born outside wedlock not put massive strain on social housing in the suburbs of that town?

Only if the couple don't live together.

And even then - the strain on housing would not necessarily change, because prior to the child, they may not have lived together...so the fact that they have had a child out of wedlock doesn't actually change the availability of housing stock.