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E U Referendum
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Do the stay in E U mob want a referendum till thy win
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Some of them, perhaps. Of course, no-one in the leave campaign would have called for anything like that...
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One thing Farage doesn't make clear in that interview is what sort of time-scale he had in mind. In ten or 20 years or so (after a vote to remain) circumstances may well have changed enough to justify Farage's call. In that sense, the main problem with calling for a second referendum in the actual event is that either you hold one instantly or ... well, we're already out and going back in after "only" 20 years is likely to be totally impossible, so there's no medium-term timescale to have a rerun.
But anyway. Despite my disappointment at the result I cannot see the point in a second referendum with the same question; holding one with a more nuanced question, along the "soft Leave v Hard Leave" stance, is probably better addressed by a General Election.
But anyway. Despite my disappointment at the result I cannot see the point in a second referendum with the same question; holding one with a more nuanced question, along the "soft Leave v Hard Leave" stance, is probably better addressed by a General Election.
jim360, I agree with your points but there is no such thing as a 'soft leave/hard leave option.
The leave option is very clear, the 'outgoing' state instigates Article 50 and the EU commision, WITHOUT the outgoing state, meet to decide the terms of the exit.
That was not made clear, in the 'Leave' message. In fact we were repeatedly told ''we will be able to negotiate our own terms of leaving'' which was an outright lie, (along with the £350 million to the NHS) For that reason alone there should be another referendum.
The leave option is very clear, the 'outgoing' state instigates Article 50 and the EU commision, WITHOUT the outgoing state, meet to decide the terms of the exit.
That was not made clear, in the 'Leave' message. In fact we were repeatedly told ''we will be able to negotiate our own terms of leaving'' which was an outright lie, (along with the £350 million to the NHS) For that reason alone there should be another referendum.
Not totally sure I understand your objection, Eddie. At the very least it has to be accepted that the objectives of Farage's Leave campaign versus, say, Daniel Hannan's, were radically different. Some sort of clarification of what sort of Leave the British actually wanted would be nice.
I suspect we'll get stuck with Boris' vision. What will be interesting is to see how acceptable that is to the Leave voters, let alone the remain ones.
I suspect we'll get stuck with Boris' vision. What will be interesting is to see how acceptable that is to the Leave voters, let alone the remain ones.
Only if you were fool enough to believe Eddie, only if you were fool enough to believe.
All my life I have NEVER been influenced by what is said, only by what is I'd isn't done.
No, there should not be another referendum. Those who didn't vote had a chance to first time and never took it. Those who did vote shouldn't pay.
All my life I have NEVER been influenced by what is said, only by what is I'd isn't done.
No, there should not be another referendum. Those who didn't vote had a chance to first time and never took it. Those who did vote shouldn't pay.
No need for racism, lol, and I resemble that remark.
I actually voted leave because I don't like the power it was trying to get in controlling people. A government you have the option of trying to remove every five years, them you don't. They have come a long way since just freedom of trading that we joined for.
I actually voted leave because I don't like the power it was trying to get in controlling people. A government you have the option of trying to remove every five years, them you don't. They have come a long way since just freedom of trading that we joined for.
EDDIE, this is what it says in Article 50,
"2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
It is clear the UK WILL be involved in the negotiations
"2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
It is clear the UK WILL be involved in the negotiations
We are leaving the EU not the other countries.
They are welcome to continue in the mire if they wish, but ought not insist we remain there with them.
We wish the individual countries well, hope they find out how to thrive, as we desire as many trading partners as we can find throughout the globe; and transport to the nearby ones tends to be cheaper.
But in any case, being surrounded by healthy economies is a wonderful thing. One hopes our example will encourage them to do similar.
They are welcome to continue in the mire if they wish, but ought not insist we remain there with them.
We wish the individual countries well, hope they find out how to thrive, as we desire as many trading partners as we can find throughout the globe; and transport to the nearby ones tends to be cheaper.
But in any case, being surrounded by healthy economies is a wonderful thing. One hopes our example will encourage them to do similar.
“That was not made clear, in the 'Leave' message. In fact we were repeatedly told ''we will be able to negotiate our own terms of leaving'' which was an outright lie, (along with the £350 million to the NHS) For that reason alone there should be another referendum.”
If every vote held was declared void on the basis that the electorate was misled by politicians, Eddie, no vote would ever stand. But to examine your specifics (which I think I’ve already done at least once, but no matter) there will be negotiation on the terms of our future relationship. They won’t be fully our terms; they won’t be fully the EU’s terms; they will be negotiated terms. What won’t happen – and I don’t believe anybody said that it would – is for the EU to say “that’s it, take it or leave it” or for us to say “that’s what we want and that’s what we’re having”. As I have repeatedly said it is in nobody’s interests to do otherwise. The “£350m” claim was never, as far as I can see, made in so many words.
The vast majority of people who voted to leave were not influenced by the campaign and the threats or promises made by either side. Most “Leavers” made their decision on the basis of what they had seen and the changes that were needed but which were constantly refused. I made my decision in 1992 when the country was refused a vote before the EU was formed. My position only strengthened over the years. Nothing, but nothing which either side said would have persuaded me to change my mind and the campaign was a waste of time as far as I was concerned. Far from being misled by it, I simply ignored it when it came to making my own decision.
I can understand the feelings of some of the young people who feel so betrayed. Most of the younger ones have spent their lives believing the world revolves around them and their needs. Not getting what they want is something they rarely have to face. Usually a bit of feet stomping and tantrums produces the desired results. It may have helped their cause a little, of course, had a few more of them pitched up to vote. If the estimates are to be believed only about one in three of under 35’s voted compared to 72% overall.
You must get a grip. There is no justification for or possibility of a second referendum and it is absolutely pointless to suggest that there should be. All that has changed since last Thursday is the result has been announced. Remembering back to the campaign and some of your posts, so convinced were you of a Remain vote that, like many politicians, you simply could not consider the possibility that the Leavers would prevail. Mikey444 was probably among the most vociferous and ardent Remainers on AB. He is obviously disappointed but he has graciously accepted the result. I do wish you’d do the same.
If every vote held was declared void on the basis that the electorate was misled by politicians, Eddie, no vote would ever stand. But to examine your specifics (which I think I’ve already done at least once, but no matter) there will be negotiation on the terms of our future relationship. They won’t be fully our terms; they won’t be fully the EU’s terms; they will be negotiated terms. What won’t happen – and I don’t believe anybody said that it would – is for the EU to say “that’s it, take it or leave it” or for us to say “that’s what we want and that’s what we’re having”. As I have repeatedly said it is in nobody’s interests to do otherwise. The “£350m” claim was never, as far as I can see, made in so many words.
The vast majority of people who voted to leave were not influenced by the campaign and the threats or promises made by either side. Most “Leavers” made their decision on the basis of what they had seen and the changes that were needed but which were constantly refused. I made my decision in 1992 when the country was refused a vote before the EU was formed. My position only strengthened over the years. Nothing, but nothing which either side said would have persuaded me to change my mind and the campaign was a waste of time as far as I was concerned. Far from being misled by it, I simply ignored it when it came to making my own decision.
I can understand the feelings of some of the young people who feel so betrayed. Most of the younger ones have spent their lives believing the world revolves around them and their needs. Not getting what they want is something they rarely have to face. Usually a bit of feet stomping and tantrums produces the desired results. It may have helped their cause a little, of course, had a few more of them pitched up to vote. If the estimates are to be believed only about one in three of under 35’s voted compared to 72% overall.
You must get a grip. There is no justification for or possibility of a second referendum and it is absolutely pointless to suggest that there should be. All that has changed since last Thursday is the result has been announced. Remembering back to the campaign and some of your posts, so convinced were you of a Remain vote that, like many politicians, you simply could not consider the possibility that the Leavers would prevail. Mikey444 was probably among the most vociferous and ardent Remainers on AB. He is obviously disappointed but he has graciously accepted the result. I do wish you’d do the same.
//From what I see on here the 'Leave' voters wanted to just say ''Up Yours,'' to the 'Frogs' and 'Krauts' and walk out on them! //
Not a bad reason in itself as far as I can see. Not the main one by any means, but hey double result. All the times we played school yard prefect and had to come between their "bloody" squabbles, and just like in the schoolyard analogy became the target of their joint resentment. Lets keep our distance in future and let them sort it out. Fiiiggght.
Not a bad reason in itself as far as I can see. Not the main one by any means, but hey double result. All the times we played school yard prefect and had to come between their "bloody" squabbles, and just like in the schoolyard analogy became the target of their joint resentment. Lets keep our distance in future and let them sort it out. Fiiiggght.
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