A Very English Scandal......normal Scott, N I Card

[ToraToraTora]

what is so vital about the national insurance card, could he not just apply for another? I don't have one but I know my number. Was it so vital back in the 60s?

[Mamyalynne]

Best I can find is...

//With no family and no money, Scott suffered from severe depression and reached out to Thorpe after being released from a psychiatric hospital. The two men apparently began an affair which soon turned sour, with Scott hoping Thorpe would be able to arrange a National Insurance card which, at the time, was essential for gaining regular work and unemployment benefits. In April 1962, Scott obtained a National Insurance card which he claimed was retained by Thorpe who had assumed the role of his employer. This claim was denied by Thorpe, with the issue over the ‘missing card’ becoming a particular annoyance with Scott.//

[ToraToraTora]

yeah but can't he just fill in a form a get a new one?

[Mamyalynne]

I have no idea how it worked back then, it's not an easy thing to research and seems to play a big part in the story.

[KARL]

I remember having one (I think I still have it somewhere) and it was impressed on you that it was extraordinarily important to look after it and the collection of stamps attached to it - the stamps proved contributions were made and consequently entitlement earned. It was an amazingly arcane system and very British, in use until really quite recently. Just guessing here and doing a bit of reverse extrapolation, it would not surprise me if it was a case of "if you were so careless as to lose it then it is going to be ridiculously difficult to replace it - after all, somebody else could be using it now - did you sell it ?", the sort of attitude which is still echoed in some areas of UK life today. Any replacement would presumably be blank and one may assume the entire record would be lost - start from the beginning again.

[Jackdaw33]

To be 'given one's cards' meant that you were being laid off or sacked.

[ToraToraTora]

yes I understand the whole "cards" thing but surely the card cannot be the only record of NI etc, that must be stored centrally, even in the 60s.

[hc4361]

The employer kept the NI card which he would stamp each week. This stamp was bought from the PO and was a physical record that NI had been paid by both employer (when he bought the stamp) and employee through the docking of his wages (also paid for within the cost of the stamp).
This was the only record of the employee's NI contributions and entitlement to the benefits that gave.
The employer was legally obliged to give the NI card to the employee when he left his employment, which would then be retained by the Unemployment Benefit Office and duly stamped by them until employment was found.
Strange as it may seem there was no other record if the employer refused to give the card to the employee or show other records of his employment and contributions.
Thorpe did not want to give Scott proof of any relationship between them and refused to admit to ever having his NI card.
This really did prevent Scott from getting a regular job or unemployment benefits.
As you know the system is much better now with computerised records.

[ToraToraTora]

ok hc, thanks, I'm amazed that such a poor system was used.

[hc4361]

Employers could make life very difficult for employees wanting to leave.

[dance2trance]

I just thought it was a plot device to signal Mr Scot seemed obsessive I worked during this period and never knew if I had a card or not and no employer ever asked and besides you can rebuild one from HMRC tax returns and employer history and whatever benefits you might have signed on for at the time.

[hc4361]

His previous employer (Thorpe) denied that Scott ever worked for him so Scott had no proof.