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Snooker With Cue Ball In Hand
Your opponent goes in off and you are "in hand" ---if you move the cue ball {whilst deciding where to play from in the D) with the tip your cue rather than using your hand and accidently move or touch another ball---is it a foul? I understood that to start or re-start a frame, the tip of the cue has to make contact with the cue ball IN AN OBVIOUS ATTEMPT TO PLAY A STROKE
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Fair enough----but am I correct about the start of a frame where I read somewhere that the frame doesn't start until the cue ball has " been struck with the tip of the cue within the D-------which would mean that any ball accidently being touched or moved would simply be re-placed by the referee. Also ---on the same theme,if a player (drunk)played the yellow instead of the cue ball--no foul because the frame hadn,t started!!!
Rules of Snooker:
3. Mode of Play
(c) The first player plays from in-hand, the frame commencing when the cueball has been placed on the table and contacted by the tip of the cue either:
(i) as a stroke is made; or
(ii) while addressing the cue-ball.
5. Playing from In-hand
(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke, then the cue-ball is not in play.
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3. Mode of Play
(c) The first player plays from in-hand, the frame commencing when the cueball has been placed on the table and contacted by the tip of the cue either:
(i) as a stroke is made; or
(ii) while addressing the cue-ball.
5. Playing from In-hand
(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke, then the cue-ball is not in play.
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And also, see the definition of "in hand (Rule 2.9):
9. In-hand
(a) The cue-ball is in-hand:
(i) before the start of each frame;
(ii) when it has entered a pocket;
(iii) when it has been forced off the table; or
(iv) when the black is spotted in the event of tied scores.
(b) The cue-ball remains in-hand until:
(i) it is played fairly from in-hand; or
(ii) a foul is committed whilst the ball is on the table.
So, rule 2.9 (b)(ii) shows that a foul can be committed whilst the cue-ball is still "in hand". Clearly striking a ball other than the cue ball with the cue is a foul.
I think you are confused about a frame being "re-started". A frame does not come to a halt when a player goes in-off (and so it does not need to be re-started).
9. In-hand
(a) The cue-ball is in-hand:
(i) before the start of each frame;
(ii) when it has entered a pocket;
(iii) when it has been forced off the table; or
(iv) when the black is spotted in the event of tied scores.
(b) The cue-ball remains in-hand until:
(i) it is played fairly from in-hand; or
(ii) a foul is committed whilst the ball is on the table.
So, rule 2.9 (b)(ii) shows that a foul can be committed whilst the cue-ball is still "in hand". Clearly striking a ball other than the cue ball with the cue is a foul.
I think you are confused about a frame being "re-started". A frame does not come to a halt when a player goes in-off (and so it does not need to be re-started).
I have been in touch with a local "A" grade referee, who agreed that if a frame hasn't started, moving the cue ball around and accidentally catching one of the baulk colours would not be penalized if it was obvious the player wasn't attempting to play a stroke.However once the frame is underway and the same situation arose, that would be a foul, which was the original point I was trying to make. Thanks everyone
Yes ken, I think the confusion arises from this in your OP:
"I understood that to start or re-start a frame, the tip of the cue..."
Your question was about what happens after a player goes in-off and his opponent thus becomes "in hand". As I said in my earlier post, the frame is not "stopped" at this point and is therefore not restarted. In fact the only circumstance I can think of where a frame is formally stopped is when a "stalemate" arises (e.g. when the cue ball gets trapped among the pack of reds and the players play a succession of "tap" shots of a few millimetres). Then, of course, the referee may decide to halt the frame and re-rack.
"I understood that to start or re-start a frame, the tip of the cue..."
Your question was about what happens after a player goes in-off and his opponent thus becomes "in hand". As I said in my earlier post, the frame is not "stopped" at this point and is therefore not restarted. In fact the only circumstance I can think of where a frame is formally stopped is when a "stalemate" arises (e.g. when the cue ball gets trapped among the pack of reds and the players play a succession of "tap" shots of a few millimetres). Then, of course, the referee may decide to halt the frame and re-rack.
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