The English Disease ...

[sunny-dave]

... a view from an expatriate living in Ireland.

I haven't posted much about Covid recently - I have no desire either to get in an argument with any individual or even just exchange fire from increasingly entrenched positions in 'News'.

But I do find myself increasingly disappointed by the attitudes to Covid restrictions evinced by many people on here (and seemingly shared by all too many people in the wider community).

I can summarise what I see as :

1. If it's only a guideline (with no legal enforcement) then I will claim special circumstances and so ignore the guideline whenever it suits me - because I am actually special.

2. If it's a law (with penalties attached) then I'll go looking with a fine-tooth-comb for the ambiguities and loopholes which will allow me to circumvent the law, so that I can behave as it suits me.

In neither case will I consider abiding by the spirit of the regulations and curbing my activities, as the guideline requests or the law requires - instead I'll regard all attempts to circumscribe my behaviour 'for the greater good' as a personal attack on my liberty which is not to be tolerated and which is to be avoided/evaded at any time when it suits me.

England is not alone in this attitude (over here I see some parts of Dublin seem to be developing the same contempt for Covid mitigation measures) - but it does seem to have become a regrettable part of the English psyche that 'rules are for other people' and 'if it isn't very specifically prohibited then it's OK to do it'.

Rant over - time for a cup of tea and a bun.

[bookbinder]

I think that you've summed up the situation very well, dave.

[SparklyKid]

And perhaps a lie down in a darkened room.

[marval]

Good one Dave, enjoy your tea and bun.

[pixie374]

Hi Dave, hope all is well...
I have just posted this on another thread, but seems relevant here..
//I don't think Britain has ever been famous for respecting authority. But also, we have very sensationalist media, who we all know exaggerate, mislead, lie, and so on. I can't honestly be surprised when people get cynical and decide to make up their own minds. A reasonable lack of trust.//

However, there are different views, all valid, about what is best for individuals and what is best for the country as a whole (as ever). It's the balance that is difficult.
Personally, I can see both sides, and have been in several dilemmas about it all... but also, if you look at the face coverings acceptable here, for example, and the admittance that it is purely for confidence to help businesses, and that the most vulnerable are exempt...
The lack of logic and consistency, is going to make anyone wary of what is actually true.

[mushroom25]

// 'rules are for other people' //

how can you blame the populations of England, or Ireland, when that attitude comes right from the top?
(I give you Barnard-Castle Gate, and Golf Gate.....)

[ichkeria]

Well I’m Irish and I don’t agree.
Not so long ago everyone was saying how great it was that people obeyed rules.
I see no great evidence that it isn’t true.
Most people go along with mask wearing even though the benefits are pros my minimal at best.
People moan a lot but in general common sense is applied

[AuntPollyGrey]

If you're in Ireland how can you comment on what's going on in England? If you are relying on the Media then obviously, they are going to concentrate on the minority who do flaunt the rules - and it is a minority.
You have no idea whats going on in England in some parts. In our County we have a road that is cut in two - one side of the road is in curfew and lockdown, the other not as it's in a different County area. Darlington is in County Durham but has its own Borough council and had decided not to follow the rest of County Durham with a curfew and non-family members not being able to meet up. So, I can go meet my friends in Darington for a coffee but my daughter and grandchildren can't come to my house in the same county, in the middle of nowhere, as there would be more than 6.
Frustration is making some people flaunt the rules, not a sense of being 'special' and frankly I don't blame them, the whole thing is an utter fiasco.

[fiction-factory]

I think APG has rather confirmed sunny-dave's point.
I also note, sunny dave that people thought the rules were too complex and then when the rule of six was introduced people thought it was too simplistic and went to great lengths to think up convoluted scenarios

[AuntPollyGrey]

I certainly have not confirmed Daves point. He is ranting about how the English think they are 'Special' and don't need to adhere to the rules. I was commenting that the vast majority do, but that does not make headlines, and those that don't are pushed to stretch the rules through sheer frustration. Of course, there are exceptions, there always will be , but from my experience most people are just shrugging their shoulders and getting on with it.

[gulliver1]

Spot on Dave ,but the problem is not just in England You can Witness "The English Disease" all over Europe. Especially at airports waving the very important English Passport about. Can't wait to see the Brexiteers having to join the very long ,slow moving, Non E/U Passport holders queue after 1st jan.

[calmck]

I think I said this on another thread. Friends and relatives took the opportunity to return to the UK when the air ridge to Portugal was available. On their return here, with no exceptions, they all said that they will not be making another trip to the UK in the near future. They were horrified to see the lack of social distancing and use of masks, compulsory here if you want to shop. Packed bars etc. Here all bars must serve food, last entrance at 11pm though now put to 10, with doors closed and no one else allowed in. They all said they felt extremely unsafe compared to being here. Not sure why the mentality here is different, maybe because the country was a dictatorship before the revolution and doing what the government says is the norm. Even with the influx of tourists to the Algarve we have few new cases. Lisbon and some northern towns have more. All tourists down here are obeying the rules and are politely reminded of the use of masks if necessary and being told the next time there will be a fine.

[douglas9401]

Here, hang on, we usually get an assault on two fronts almost simultaneously from Ould Erin.

Has there been a hacking?

[Mozz71]

//If you're in Ireland how can you comment on what's going on in England?//

Polly, in fairness to Dave he did say //But I do find myself increasingly disappointed by the attitudes to Covid restrictions evinced by many people on here (and seemingly shared by all too many people in the wider community).//

So he's taking his assumptions from what people are saying on here (and assumingly on other media outlets).

[sunny-dave]

A few points :

1. I do accept that most people are doing their best to comply with rules and act in a responsible way - but the minority who are 'the entitled' is by no means as small as some people would like to think.

2. I'm in regular contact with friends/family in communities across England - from big cities to tiny villages, from 'virus free' to 'Covid hotspot' - I base most of my comments on what they see on a day-to-day basis - not on the MSM's twisted agendas.

3. Boris and Co. have made an appalling hash of this - and it's no wonder that people are tired and dismayed - but (if approached from 'what is the spirit of this law' rather than 'what is the pettifogging detail that I can exploit') the current guidance is clear enough.

4. If you want to see an example of what I'm on about, then APG's post at 17:10 is indeed a pertinent example. If I lived just outside the border between a locked-down area and a 'free' one, then I'd be thinking that perhaps I might temper my actions to those of the locked area - rather than jollies around the fleshpots of Darlo, however alluring those may be.
Instead we see a classic bit of dissembling and obfuscation aimed at self-justification from (let us not forget) someone who is a member of an 'at risk' group and ultimately reliant on the good behaviour of others to keep her safe.

[iluvmargie]

Good job I don't take notice of, or listen to, do-gooders, especially those with their salient points!!!

Yawwwwnnnnnnnn!

[Old_Geezer]

The attitude is the correct protest one when bad law is being imposed. One has no real power save refusal. Should Hong Kong go meekly into Chinese government control of citizens ? Should Ghandi have abandoned any hope of making his country free of the benefits of being under Britain's wing ?

You brought enough tea and buns for the rest of us ?

[gulliver1]

18.25 Don't be so rude.

[royfromaus]

sunny-dave
A few points :

1. I do accept that most people are doing their best to comply with rules and act in a responsible way - but the minority who are 'the entitled' is by no means as small as some people would like to think.
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https://twitter.com/thomasoc2012/status/1306696557589336068/photo/1

[Sqad]

Spot on dave,I have been banging on o the line for any a year particularly after living in another European country for 20 years.

UK always brags about the NHS being the 'Envy of the World " and it isn't.
UK has the dirtiest rivers in Europe
UK has the highest death toll from Co19 in Europe.
The people of the UK do not do as they are told...generally.
They tend to have an inflated idea of themselves.....generally.
They think that they are living on God's own country.?generally.

Not a rant, not necessarily knocking the UK but offering some personal observations bought over a period of well over half a century.

The answer to Co19 at the moment is to do what you are told.

[fiction-factory]

Most people are in real life Sqad- certainly all the ones I know and work with. Really ggo compliance in schools and staff were constantly reminding pupils who forgot to wear face coverings or were passing books to each other. In my experience many on AB are also doing so, but there are some who like to criticise, pick holes, and boast about being rule breakers as if they are still rebellious students. I guess though that many of these when away from the safety of their screen are complying, and if not will see things differently when a loved one suffers or dies from Covid