Why Can't We Deal With Shop Lifting?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/we-need-help-workers-say-shoplifting-is-out-of-control-as-brazen-thefts-explode-13256656

 

[gulliver1]

Because if the goods are worth under £200 ,then they get away with it.

[nicebloke1]

The cons cut the police force numbers.

[ToraToraTora]

gawd elp us it's dumb and dumber....can you two even perceive the idea of a discussion?

[youngmafbog]

//The cons cut the police force numbers.//

And put them back.  Next.

[youngmafbog]

TTT, the answer is right on Liberalism that has infected our Courts and our Police.

 

[nicebloke1]

The cons closed many court houses.

[youngmafbog]

I see, so moved on from Police numbers then.

Yes they did close some - and opened others.  Still doesnt explain why we dont deal with, at least the prolific, shoplifters.

 

Seemed to be enough Courts and beaks to deal with locking away political prisoners pronto.

 

[douglas9401]

I was just saying to the boss last night that in Spanish supermarkets the security operatives have an impressive baton in their belt and the ones I've seen don't look worried about using it to get the attention of thieves.

Of course our lawmakers adopt a more touchy feely approach and arrest those who defend property. That's the answer.

Along with allowing for cultural differences too. 🙄

[rowanwitch]

Because shoplifting is a very multifaceted crime

A) crime of desperation, usually those who have addictions, or who due to extreme poverty are tempted apparently a common reason given by women  is to obtain gifts for a child  when they can't get the item from their income,  Most commonly low level.

B) Crime of addiction.  Risk taking behaviour when there is no financial driver  the person stealing does it for the adrenaline buzz or dopamine reward. Often starts with children daring one another in some cases it carried on.

C) organised or semi organised,  people steal on demand, sometimes those involved are illegals, or have debts to those involved in organised crime. Usually work in gangs, with distraction techniques or a willingness to use violence of aggression to escape.

D) crime of protest... The processing of high value items as say a bag of spuds through a self checkout, the perpetrator considers it  justified as a protest at the change in the shop's processing of sales.

E) dissociation... A failure to realise that even though the crime is perpetrated on a business there is an impact associated with their behaviour.  Also covers the theft from larger businesses where the person considers their actions to be so small as not to count.

On the strength of the above which were all I could think of at the moment there are a number of root causes

1) poverty,  with associated separation from mainstream society. There will always be those who want what they can't afford but those who steal from what they perceive as genuine need may respond to proper support including education in money management or with addiction.

2) risk addiction could to some extent be reduced by offering alternatives Young people especially are sheltered from almost all risk when it is needed to develop situation assessment skills. Education services may have a role

3) Criminal justice system needs to be enabled  to accept that lower entry level crimes should be dealt with seriously but also in ways that address the underlying cause.  Where organised crime is involved it should be treated as seriously as drugs or sex crimes with those at the bottom of the scale being considered to be victims rather than villains. Those further up in the organisation being targeted for harsher punishment.

4) A new type of prison?  Maybe reeducation centres for people in the early stages of criminal activity , to include training in skills to increase employability, mental health support, addiction services to include proper therapy for those for whom addiction is a symptom of deeper underlying pathology.  These could provide out of work  hours compulsory accomodation. Reducing contact with the persons circle that supports the criminal behaviour. Or full time intense retraining and correction.  Just locking people up doesn't work.   There's probably more I can say but that's enough to be going on with

[douglas9401]

Oh boo effing hoo.

Thieving and that's all about it.

[mushroom25]

round here, the police consider shoplifting of values up to a few hundred to be a civil matter. pretty much all they'll do if called is to give advice to retailers as to how they can pursue their losses through the civil courts.

[fender62]

thieving for the disaffected hardup, steal that ferrari get more money then a frozen leg of lamb, if it's out of control, then its because of liberal laws and hurty words, plod err he just called me a thief im offended, now now then mr shop keeper, down the station you go for questioning.

[New Judge]

“The cons closed many court houses.”

Fewer were necessary because it was determined that shop theft where the value was less than £200 Aamong other things) would not be prosecuted other than in “exceptional circumstances”.

That decision was not driven by lack of court capacity but by a policy introduced in 2004 to effectively decriminalise such offences. There is little point in making this yet another party politcial issue because you should note this was at a time when a Labour government had been in power for seven years and the Conservatives were six years away from taking office. The Labour government need not have taken the measure and the Coalition and Conservative governments had plenty of time to reverse it. But it seems they were all deleriously happy with the new scheme.

This involved issuing penalty notices instead of prosecutions, ordering the thief to pay £80. This seemed a little odd because presumably the thief had stolen goods because he had no cash. But there it was.

This represented quite good “value” because it was less than the penalty for driving at 35mph in a 30 limit (which is £100). As well as that, drivers committing four such offences would find themselves facing a ban. But there was no such punishment for cumulative offences of theft. 

So the courts were closed because a number of low level offences such as shoplifting, criminal damage and disorderly behaviour were no longer handled by them. It wasn’t that the offences still required prosecution but there was no court capacity. 

“Because shoplifting is a very multifaceted crime”

It is not so multifaceted as you suggest (not in terms of volumes, anyway). 

Over 80% of low level acquisitive crime is committed to fund addiction. I have my own views on the links between addiction and the need to steal which we need not go into here. But basically by far and away the majority of shoplifting is committed by drug addicts.

If that is to be satisfactorily addressed as you suggest, the way to do that is by courts imposing sentences that involve rehabilitation (via, initially, the probation service) as was done pre-2004. Instead, those who are caught are slapped with an £80 fine (which also has to be funded by theft from shops, if it is paid at all) time after time. 

So plainly and simply, Tora, it isn't that we cannot deal with shoplifters. It is that we will not. People who steal from shops know this, so they continue to do it, imposing costs on the retailers which all their customers have to bear. 

[wolf63]

There are some strange items security tagged in Tesco.

I saw tags on wax hair removal strips and tampons.

[drmorgans]

 

As I was going into my local JS a chap walked up to a large beer display in the foyer, grabbed a case and walked out.

Supermarkets talk about the need for security. Probably not the best place to display premium lager.

 

[New Judge]

"There are some strange items security tagged in Tesco."

Some shoplifing is now being committed "to order" with some thieves actually supplying small corner shops with plundered goods. This, in my view, should be among the "exceptional circumstances" which warrant prosecution (in the same way that possession (of drugs) with intent to supply is a more serious offence than simple possession) and should also see the small shopkeeper's collar felt.

Individual outlets will obviously tag whatever goods they notice is stolen most. Last time I looked, razor blades were among the most popular items (easy to conceal, small, light, high value relative to their size/weight).

[richtee]

Very public spirited of the police to say keep your theiving under £200 and we won't bother you.

[jourdain2]

'Tagging' some items such as bottles of spirits is one thing, but ou local Morrison's has now introduced doors over these shelves and you have to ring for an employee to come and open it if you want to buy one!

I object strongly to that.  If I want to buy a good bottle of Whisky for someone, I want to pick it up and read the blurb. Also, it could take ages for an employee to arrive (there isn't one standing around) andthat would slow down shopping considerably.  I'll buy those items elsewhere now, so it's a rather counter-productive precaution.

Yes, it's a lack of will by the justice system and politicians.  It must fuel inflation, but has been allowed to grow into such a huge problem that it will be costly to change it.

[CrapatCryptics2]

A substantial number of hearings take place via video link so the drain of running a full court can be reduced. No need for cells, cell staff, solicitors rooms etc if no prisoners present.

[New Judge]

"A substantial number of hearings take place via video link so the drain of running a full court can be reduced. No need for cells, cell staff, solicitors rooms etc if no prisoners present."

That's quite true. But the issue isn't lack of court time/space etc. The issue is that legislation is in place which specifically steers low value theft offences away from the courts and treats such matters as less serious than a parking ticket.

As an aside, when shoplifters do appear (and when they did appear in larger numbers) they rarely come to court in custody.  They usually called to court courtesy of a "Postal Requisition" and appear for their first hearing subject to police bail.