Should of??

[sandmaster]

My primary school teachers were stringent when it came to grammar. 'Should have' when pronounced I had to sound the 'h'. Writing - I was allowed, but not encouraged to reduce it to should've. Lazy pronounciation has led to people saying 'should of' - but it seems to me teachers in the recent past have allowed people to actually write 'should of'. Is it because the teachers themselves are ignorant, just lazy or just cannot be bothered? I don't blame the pupils. If you are not taught you cannot learn.

[squarebear]

Language changes.

The correct way is "should have", as you quite rightly point out but new words and usages happen all the time. It would appear that people use both "should have" and "should of" nowadays.

[4getmenot]

this is one thing that really annoys me and people actually think it is should of!! Aaaaarrrrgh

[Schutzengel]

I couldn't agree more. We are looking at a generation betrayed by trendy teaching methods.

[Lil O'lady]

Parents and the media also assist in this sad decline. From a teacher's viewpoint, it can be a balance between correcting poor grammar and encouraging kids to express themselves in writing. Sometimes to correct every error - and insist on neat handwriting - a teacher could just cover the whole page of work in corrections, and how would that make the child feel?

[abstibus]

I teach English to international students. One of them was doing a Cambridge Proficiency exam and asked her flatmate (local, native speaker) 'What preposition goes with this verb?'
The answer was, 'What's a preposition?

[sandmaster]

Sorry lil ol lady - a child should be taught properly. Not correcting a child just to save its feelings is betraying and underestimating the child. Annemolie's post shows that other nations are leading us - even in our own language. I agree the beauty of English is that it is allowed to develop by usage, but if we continue in this lazy manner we will once again have a two tier society - those that 'talk proper an those who don'

[Lil O'lady]

It's a grand theory sir, till you're faced wth having to actually teach an overcrowded class of kids whose parents aren't interested or informed about the worth of education, who haven't had enough sleep cos they were up past midnight watching telly, and who have breakfasted if at all on crisps and fanta. That is sadly the all too common picture in the UK unlike the rest of Europe.
In France for exmple, teachers teach - none of this nonesense about having to deal with toilet emergencies or disruptive behaviour. Teachers in the UK are expected to do all of this and smile sweetly to parents as well.
In Taiwan classes of 50 are commonplace even in primary schools - but absolute total obedience and a culture of competitive testing also prevails and is totally supported by parents and state.
I'm not saying these are better systems. I'm just saying you can't have it all ways without something giving.

[New Judge]

You should bite the bullet Lil O�Lady and agree that educational techniques employed in the other countries that you mention are better than those employed here.

The issue that started this off (�should of�) is not, as squarebear suggests, an example of language evolving. It is simply grammatically incorrect. It is similar to discovering that some children believe that two times two equals five and allowing that belief to go unchallenged for fear of upsetting them.

State education in this country is a disaster, a shambles, a disgrace, an outrage, even a tragedy. The victims are the children who are being let down, those parents who want their children to receive a decent education, the taxpayer who is being ripped off and those who have to make sacrifices to pay for both state and private education in order to ensure their children receive the best possible start.

Classes are not overcrowded. The government says they are not and for once I believe them. I was taught in classes of 35 to 40 � numbers which would produce gasps of horror today - and received a far better education than is provided today. Bad parenting such as you mention is prevalent in many areas, but that does not excuse bad teaching.

Children beginning school now will be forced to attend until they are 18. At present large numbers attend only intermittently once they reach about twelve. A far more effective measure would be to establish which parents actually want their children to receive a strong, disciplined education. Those parents will be expected to support their offspring and the schools to achieve that aim. Those who are not prepared to make such an undertaking should see their children forced to attend �attendance centres� where they will simply be held securely for the duration of the school day. That way educational resources can be directed towards those who are prepared to respond to them.

[sandmaster]

I've given Lil' & New Judge 3 stars - I think it is the system. Increasing the statutory age to 18 only reduces the politically charged number of people unemployed. It will not improve the education of those unwilling to learn. It will hamper the chances of those eager to learn. I too was taught in classes of a minimum of 36 and the system worked because of discipline. Yes there were times we hated the teacher, but mostly the teachers were respected and liked. It was not an Eton standard education but I learned to spell, have a good grasp of grammar and I can add and multiply without using a calculator. Please give our kids a chance - don't pander to the lazy and incompetent.

[Whickerman]

I think a complete lack of literacy skills will be inevitable within several generations. Don't get me started on mis-placed commas, the use of "who's" rather than "whose" and of course, the example you cite of 'should of'.

The other day I drove behind a signwriter's van with the claim "All Work Fully Garaunteed" emblazoned on the doors.

[sandmaster]

Thanks Whickerman - that gave me laugh!!

[sandmaster]

Here's the missing 'a' from the above!!

[sophie_1003]

The should of/should have annoys me, you wouldn't say "I of done that" so why would you say "I should of done that" I'm currently at university studying an education degree (leading to QTS) and our English teacher is very insistent that we must use correct English when teaching and although I may have slipped into bad habits with both speaking and writing I am working very hard on self-improvement! The same goes for mental strategies for maths, in fact, these should (according to education experts) be taught before written methods which again come before using calculators. Therefore we must know these strategies ourselves, which again I am working on! Hope this sets your minds at ease that at least one future teacher is taking her job seriously!

[sandmaster]

Well done Sophie!
It seems to be the system ingrained in university students to ignore errors and encourage free thinking. Whilst the latter is commendable, people need to express themselves in a way others can understand.
As for mental arithmetic, I remember suffering hours of torment learning tables and answering sums. But it was worth it as I can add up quite quickly and accurately. This was a boon when I was a bank cashier many years ago!!
My children are also quite good at their tables, as I bought a CD for the car and we used to 'sing along' to it whilst on days out. Also we had adding up and subtracting 'games'. I tried to make it fun and my son and daughter loved it on long journeys.
Good luck to you with your future career.

[sophie_1003]

Thank you! I remember mental maths at school being my worst nightmare, we were the year that they had only just put it in the curriculum so I went from all paper based work to the teacher reading out the calculation and we had to write down just the answer, we weren't taught any strategies and I'm still getting over my fear of having to do things without writing them down! Luckily I won't have to teach like that as maths now it's much nicer, more fun and not as mean to the children who aren't so good at maths!