Listener Crossword No. 4563 Odd One Out By Sabre

[emcee]

I'm surprised there isn't a thread ... perhaps there is, and the Search facility is failing again.

I finished this puzzle last night which must be a first with Sabre and tells me it wasn't as difficult as it first appeared.

I thought the clues weren't up to the usual fiendish standard with very few (if any) novel gimmicks he has devised in the past.

The code was enjoyable to work out and saved what was otherwise pretty routine.

I would rate that as an introductory Sabre for beginners; which in no way implies it was easy.

Thanks, Sabre. Not one of your best but some relief it wasn't a brute.

[Hagen]

I'll sign in now as I'm busy tomorrow. I agree with Emcee that this was the easiest grid fill I have seen of a Sabre puzzle; but I part company regarding the enjoyability of the endgame. I have only found three of the coded answers after much tedious fiddling around. It's fairly obvious (I think) what the common link is, but I've put searching for the others on my to-do list just below "clean the drains". A crossword puzzle that is one tenth solving clues and nine tenths messing around with fiddly codes doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid.

If there is a flood of general approbation for the astonishing nature of the odd one out, I'll put the drains off a bit longer.

[Scorpius]

I didn't find the endgame as tedious as Hagen, even though I was missing some of the cipher, since I couldn't identify the encoded word in one of the clues.. I treated the whole of the filled grid as cipher text and then filled a second grid in which I decoded as much as I could from the letters I knew. It was easy to see four familiar words fully or partially decoded. A more obscure one was easily verifiable. Filling the gaps to get each word appearing in full gave me a bit more of the cipher.

I quite enjoyed the decoding, but I think it's the weakest Sabre I've ever encountered for all sorts of reasons. Filling the top half of the grid took very little time. Had this been from another setter I suspect a few would be claiming some of the clues are below Listener standard. Admittedly there are several devious ones that are more typically Sabrean (Sabresque?).

[Cruncher]

I enjoyed the tussle with the endgame, although I had figured out the 5 words from the clues before I started. Some slightly surprising wordplay - personally found 'Levi' a bit elliptic.

[Cruncher]

Also my annual request for a proxy submitter. I'm in the Far East in August and it will be difficult to submit entries for the August 10th and 17th puzzles. Anybody able to help? I've done this before and JEG is very obliging. I screenshot my answer to you and you print it off and post it to St Albans. If needs be you can submit your entry first before I send on to you. A bottle of wine or a donation to your favourite charity for any help. TIA

[Hagen]

Done it now. It would have helped if I hadn't used direct letters rather than a synonym to work out part of the code (hope that is vague enough not to be a spoiler but still makes sense). It was an understandable mistake to make, I think.

So I take back some of the grumpiness of my previous post, but I still can't say I enjoy this sort of puzzle. Now for those drains...

[perseverer]

I agree with those who feel the balance was wrong - I tend to think filling the grid should be the hard bit and the endgame, in this case trying to figure out what was encoded, should be the fun, or involve a sudden PDM, and this was more like a chore. There were some very cleverly constructed clues, but to my mind Sabre gets a laxity from the editors that others may not. Still if you have produced about 70 Listeners you may merit it.
You also have to appreciate the effort that went into construction, it cannot have been easy to find a code which would work with the thematic words to produce real words.
I did quite like the common link.

[tnap]

Cruncher - happy to help again as I'm around in August. I'll e-mail you.

[NickorWan]

I enjoyed the coding bit, and don’t mind at all if the endgame takes as long as the grid fill as long as both parts are enjoyable. I agree with the OP that it would be a nice introductory level, having mostly easy clues and basic coding. There are a few brutish clues though which would tax the best solver. I think the theme a little weak, but having read Perseverer’s last sentence I am worried I have missed something. Thanks, Sabre, enjoyable but as the OP says, not one of your best.

[olichant]

I wasn’t quite sure how to express my reaction to this puzzle, but NickorWan has perfectly encapsulated what I felt, in all respects. An enjoyable solve for all of that.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Apart from an elbow joint of two lights I've had a full grid for two day and sufficient transpositions in the code to eliminate the first clues I've looked at as coded forms. All very hard work. The comments here suggest on the whole too much.

[Askival]

Certainly a relief to get through a Sabre relatively unscathed, especially after last month's Magpie.

It did leave me with that feeling of 'the harder the puzzle, the more satisfying the pay-off', which is a correlation of which I'm not especially fond. Certainly the best of Sabre's puzzles are ones I've not been able to finish (not a moan, just a slightly self-pitying observation - must try harder).

It certainly can't have been easy to come up with the cipher to satisfy the five thematic words, and a further five for use in the clues, and for me that was perhaps the most impressive part.

Thanks, Sabre.

[sunny-dave]

I filled the grid in no time at all (at least by comparison with usual Sabre puzzles), but after a brief look at the coding endgame I parked this on the ‘wet afternoon playtime’ pile.

Said wet afternoon arrived (in spades) yesterday, so I set to and finished the puzzle - and found a rousing sense of “ho-hum, so what” when I had done so.

Not a classic Sabre and (probably) my least favourite Listener of the year so far ...

Grumpy Dave