ChatterBank3 mins ago
right to access ?
18 Answers
Hi There chaps.
New to this site so I hope ive done it right !!
Adjacent to our house is a lane which runs the length of our garden. The lane serves as rear access to five houses. Land registery shows that four of the five houses only have rights to pass and repass over the lane, only one house actually owns a small part of the lane. Land registery also shows that there is nobody listed as owning the remainder of the lane. I wish to create a hard standing area at the bottom of my garden to store a touring caravan. Having spoken to the people who have rights to pass and repass over the lane they have created fuss saying I have no right to access. I have spoken to a solicitor who specialises in land who states that the only person who could stop me from using the lane is the person who owns the deeds for the lane and since there is no record of this person or deed then I can use the lane in acordance with the rules regarding pass and repass. Can anyone shed some opinions on this for me ??
many thanks
mike
New to this site so I hope ive done it right !!
Adjacent to our house is a lane which runs the length of our garden. The lane serves as rear access to five houses. Land registery shows that four of the five houses only have rights to pass and repass over the lane, only one house actually owns a small part of the lane. Land registery also shows that there is nobody listed as owning the remainder of the lane. I wish to create a hard standing area at the bottom of my garden to store a touring caravan. Having spoken to the people who have rights to pass and repass over the lane they have created fuss saying I have no right to access. I have spoken to a solicitor who specialises in land who states that the only person who could stop me from using the lane is the person who owns the deeds for the lane and since there is no record of this person or deed then I can use the lane in acordance with the rules regarding pass and repass. Can anyone shed some opinions on this for me ??
many thanks
mike
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Sorry there, The builder, the part of the lane owned by one resident is about twenty feet further down the lane than i need to go so therefore it doesnt effect her land in any way, the only part of the lane I need to use is the part where the residents only have right to pass and re-pass and the actual ownership of the lane is unknown. Hope that makes more sense.
regards
mike
regards
mike
Yes, TB's point is important.
Also:
If you are trying to use the part of the lane whose ownership is unknown, you stand a fair chance of succeeding, BUT can you clarify whether the easement that exists in your LR title (and presumably it is the same wording in that of your other three neighbours who do not own a section of lane) says pass/repass on foot, or whether it mentions motor vehicles or whether it just says 'a right to pass and repass'.
Depending on the answer to that, please could you indicate what width of access you will be leaving these neighbours once your caravan is in place (or are you are one end - so they don't have to pass/repass adjacent to the van).
If we can get answers to these things, we can perhaps give better informal guidance. The neighbours probably won't like what you propose doing but unless they can identify an original owner who granted the easement to all four, there is probably not going to be a lot (in law) they can do about it.
Bear in mind that your move may result in others undertaking the same land grab (is that going to foul you up some other way?)
Also be prepared to work out how you would back down in the future scenario if you sold the house (Mosaic's point) - though you could probably acquire an indemnity insurance to cover future buyers, in the event that the original owner came to light.
Sounds an interesting opportunity to add to your plot.
Also:
If you are trying to use the part of the lane whose ownership is unknown, you stand a fair chance of succeeding, BUT can you clarify whether the easement that exists in your LR title (and presumably it is the same wording in that of your other three neighbours who do not own a section of lane) says pass/repass on foot, or whether it mentions motor vehicles or whether it just says 'a right to pass and repass'.
Depending on the answer to that, please could you indicate what width of access you will be leaving these neighbours once your caravan is in place (or are you are one end - so they don't have to pass/repass adjacent to the van).
If we can get answers to these things, we can perhaps give better informal guidance. The neighbours probably won't like what you propose doing but unless they can identify an original owner who granted the easement to all four, there is probably not going to be a lot (in law) they can do about it.
Bear in mind that your move may result in others undertaking the same land grab (is that going to foul you up some other way?)
Also be prepared to work out how you would back down in the future scenario if you sold the house (Mosaic's point) - though you could probably acquire an indemnity insurance to cover future buyers, in the event that the original owner came to light.
Sounds an interesting opportunity to add to your plot.
Yes, BM........... the very next point I was going to bring up. Indemnity Insurance.
I've had to do this several times where deeds are either silent, or controversial.
It does matter whether the others have "exclusive" rights to the lane. If not, and there is no ongoing dispute or contention over use, then insurance would cover your use of the lane against anyone coming out of the woodwork in the future to tell you otherwise.
I've had to do this several times where deeds are either silent, or controversial.
It does matter whether the others have "exclusive" rights to the lane. If not, and there is no ongoing dispute or contention over use, then insurance would cover your use of the lane against anyone coming out of the woodwork in the future to tell you otherwise.
Thank you for taking this time to answer to my questions everyone, to answer buildersmates questions, the caravan will not be on the lane in anyway once it has travelled over, basically the lane is parallel to my garden, the plan is to take the dividing hedge between our garden and the lane away and replace it with a fence and gate, on our side of the fence( in our garden) will then be a concrete slab which the van will live. each of the deeds (obtained from land registery) state that each house has right to pass and re-pass over the lane, it doesnt mention anything other than that, since each house has a garage adjoining the lane I assume that the statement, right to pass and re-pass would include cars ? As regards others trying to as you put it "land grab" I am the only other person other than the people mentioned that can gain any thing from trying to use the lane, the lane doesnt back or adjoin any other properties. It has crossed my mind that the rightful owner of the lane turns up and decides i cannot have access but I suppose i will need to cross that bridge when I get to it !! As far as selling the house goes, we have plenty of drive space at the moment albeit not wide enough to take the caravan, so it would be no issue for me to take the caravan drive and gates away as though they were never there.
The Builder, So indemnity insurance is something ive not any knowledge of, are you saying that, if I do construct and use this caravan drive then i can take out insurance which protects me in the event of someone coming forward with the original lane deeds and trying to stop me having access ?? could you explain more ?
Yes, that's it.
Legal advice is essential though. A lawyer would, in effect, put a case to an Insurance Company, who would only offer a policy in the right circumstances. In short, they'd want to be sure they were on to a "sure thing"........ that is, that it's very unlikely that someone will appear in the future, AND, that anyone who might conceivably benefit from the Policy, knows NOTHING about its existence.
Difficult to explain clearly, I'm afraid, but your lawyer will certainly be able to guide you.
Legal advice is essential though. A lawyer would, in effect, put a case to an Insurance Company, who would only offer a policy in the right circumstances. In short, they'd want to be sure they were on to a "sure thing"........ that is, that it's very unlikely that someone will appear in the future, AND, that anyone who might conceivably benefit from the Policy, knows NOTHING about its existence.
Difficult to explain clearly, I'm afraid, but your lawyer will certainly be able to guide you.
thank you, I didnt know that sort of policy existed ! I think that would probably work in an insurance companies eyes, it seems that the comon story in the village is that many years ago some old chap bought the deeds for this lane and many other pieces of land in the village and then emigrated to south Africa, im guessing this would have been before the 70's when you needed to register land with the registry, probably unlikely that he is still alive !! and presumeably if the deeds were handed down in some sort of will then because the others have ROW then there would be very little that new owners could do with it ?? Just speculating of course !!
Based on what you have outlined about the layout and easements, I can't see much in the way of risk with doing this. I (wrongly) thought you were wanting to park the van in part of the access lane for which no ownership is known. There would seem to be no legal obstacle to shifting the van across a piece of land over which you already have a right to pass/repass, especially since the way that the right is worded is extremely vague.
In the unlikley event that a rightful owner eventually emerged at a later date (and objected), you could merely back the van out again.
The other owners are perhaps upset because of the visual issue with a van at the bottom of your garden - but that is your perogative provided you are not living in it (planning issue) and provided there is no restriction on such a siting in your land title (
In the unlikley event that a rightful owner eventually emerged at a later date (and objected), you could merely back the van out again.
The other owners are perhaps upset because of the visual issue with a van at the bottom of your garden - but that is your perogative provided you are not living in it (planning issue) and provided there is no restriction on such a siting in your land title (
Happy new year chaps, hope the hangovers arent to bad !!
thank you builders mate, sorry i think i might have worded it a bit vaguely, the other residents have the rights to pass/repass but it doesnt say that on my deeds, i am just going on the fact that because the owner of the lane deeds cannot be traced and its only he/she that can stop my access i am going to use the lane, as i interperate the law, its only the deed owners that can stop me, not the people who have rights to pass/repass ?? what do you think ??
thank you builders mate, sorry i think i might have worded it a bit vaguely, the other residents have the rights to pass/repass but it doesnt say that on my deeds, i am just going on the fact that because the owner of the lane deeds cannot be traced and its only he/she that can stop my access i am going to use the lane, as i interperate the law, its only the deed owners that can stop me, not the people who have rights to pass/repass ?? what do you think ??
Thank you builders mate.
I suppose the next part of my dilemour is how do I procceed from here, do I continue to try to reason with the resident in order to try to gain their blessing, before i start the ground works, or do I carry on regardless, knowing that im in the right ( as far as the law is concerned ) despite the upset it seems to have caused the residents ??
I suppose the next part of my dilemour is how do I procceed from here, do I continue to try to reason with the resident in order to try to gain their blessing, before i start the ground works, or do I carry on regardless, knowing that im in the right ( as far as the law is concerned ) despite the upset it seems to have caused the residents ??
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