Handheld mobiles and driving

[mfewell]

Does anyone know, are people being convicted for this ? This morning cycling to work I was nearly hit by a car. Young woman, baby in the back, mobile phone glued to her ear, pulled out of a side turning, steering erratically with one hand, nearly in to me. I am still shaking ! Obviously it's hard to catch them, but if they are caught are they fined ? (Any point taking the number and reporting it?)

 

Also, if you are involved in an accident and there is a mobile in the car, will the police always check the call register against the incident time, and if it matches, to what degree does it affect the charge, e.g. is careless driving increased to dangerous driving ?

 

I count drivers using handhelds, something to do. This morning 6, on a half-hour ride.

[ursula62]

I had to take my motorcycle for its service the other day at 8.30 am. School run time - bad move. The roads were full of women in landrovers dropping off kids at roundabouts etc - one woman was steering with her elbows while putting on makeup using the driving mirrors while holding a phone to her ear with her shoulder. She had two kids in the back that weren't strapped in.  She wasn't the only one.

[JudgeJ]

The use of a hand-held phone whilst driving attracts a fixed penalty of �60 and three penalty points. Offenders wishing not to accept the fixed penalty can go to court. There, if they are found, or plead, guilty, magistrates have the option to fine them up to �1,000 and endorse their licence with more than three points if they wish.

However, unless there are particular aggravating features, they would be unlikely to go much beyond the �60 and 3 points, though the fine will be higher if the defendant pleads not guilty and is found guilty by the magistrates after a trial. Defendants in both instances will also usually be liable to pay a contribution towards the prosecution costs – usually in the order of �40 for a guilty plea.

Defendants going to court should also be aware that, as with any offence that attracts penalty points, the magistrates may order a period of disqualification for the single offence alone (regardless of any “totting up” points already incurred) though for this offence it would be most unlikely.

The definitions of dangerous and careless driving are quite different and careless driving cannot usually be “upgraded” to dangerous driving because of, for example, the offender was using a mobile at the time. It is the nature of the driving itself which determines which charge is laid.

[ursula62]

Trouble is JudgeJ unless the police see these people driving this way, and can be bothered to stop them/report them, then nothing will change.

Yesterday I saw someone making a right turn into a main road. She had a phone to her ear and was steering one handed. She nearly knocked a chap off his pushbike because she was only looked in one direction before pulling out.

[kempie]

I believe that 'safety' cameras are unable to capture these offences.

[Grunty]

It is not only that the police cannot be bothered (although that is part of the problem).  To prove the offence, the police would need to see the phone in position and the driver talking into it.  Although you see this happening, you see the driver's arm and assume that there is a phone in it.  That is not proof to the satisfaction of a court.  Once again, careless drafting of a law.

[mfewell]

I thought I heard of a case, a fatal accident, where the police were able to prove from the phone's call register that the driver was on the phone at the time of the accident, and the charge thereby became manslaughter.

[c00ky83]

If you're in a rush, drive.  If you need to phone, stop.  Nothing is important enough to do both.  I could catch the b'stards - camera in one hand, notepad in the other?  Job done.

[Tim Baxter]

As I see it the 3 offences of driving without consideration for other road users, due care & attention and dangerous/reckless driving should have been all the plod needed to prosecute a mobile user.

However, because these laws weren't formulated for this offence the plod (or CPS) would often get the evidence wrong.  So, to make it easier, the specific offence (easily provable by the call register or itemised billing) was introduced but now (as has been said) it's simply not enforced enough.

[jake-the-peg]

You'd appear to be right about the number of cases being low. It took some finding but I finally found it here: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199900/ldhansrd/pdvn/lds05/text/50711w02.htm

Latest data is 2005 and in England and Wales there were 1,888 �30 tickets issued which is an average of 5 a day over England and Wales

[mattie]

What annoys me about this particular issue, is that the law is very clear and well publicised with regard to mobile phones and driving, yet people continuously use their phones while driving.

If anything the penalties need to be stronger to act as a proper deterrent.

[blackscorpion]

Get a (good quality) self contained helmet camera!
I use a Drift Ghost (Google it for details) and it's attached to the helmet when I'm on my motorcycle and the windscreen when in the car. Imagery is excellent (1080dpi, 170 degree view angle). The footage is date/time stamped and it can be (and already has been) used as evidence in court. I use it for EVERY journey, regardless of distance. I have secured two convictions in the past year against dangerous antisocial drivers - one cretin was talking on her mobile at the lights. The convictions were done via the website policewitness.com. I am an IAM member and we use the footage for training purposes. As the saying goes: 'Don't get mad - get even!'
Often other road users will back off when they see the camera. Cyclists and motorcyclists are vulnerable road users and need every edge to stay alive and uninjured. This is a way to use technology to your advantage. Otherwise it's just your word against theirs. Oh - and don't skimp on the cost with some crappy £50 camera, get something decent! It's worth EVERY penny, believe me. You'll wonder how you managed without it!