Music3 mins ago
Late Nip - Failed To Identify - What Next?
9 Answers
A long journey with shared driving followed by a house move 3 days later and timely submission to DVLA for the address on the V5 to be updated. Result - NIP arrives to new address 11 weeks after the alleged offence (36 in a 30).
I returned the NIP, not naming the driver (we cannot be sure who it was), with a letter of explanation and have now been summonsed for the original offence, plus failing to identify. I need to return the plea form to the courts - clearly I am not pleading guilty to the speeding offence (cannot be sure who it was driving) but how should I plead to failing to identify the driver? Guilty with mitigation (after all, I DID fail to identify the driver, but with good reason) or not guilty? Very conscious of the £1000 fine / 6 points that could befall me... but this is where I am at! I am loathe to employ a lawyer when all I want to do is explain a very reasonable case.
Any advice welcome, thanks all. Main question is how to plead!
I returned the NIP, not naming the driver (we cannot be sure who it was), with a letter of explanation and have now been summonsed for the original offence, plus failing to identify. I need to return the plea form to the courts - clearly I am not pleading guilty to the speeding offence (cannot be sure who it was driving) but how should I plead to failing to identify the driver? Guilty with mitigation (after all, I DID fail to identify the driver, but with good reason) or not guilty? Very conscious of the £1000 fine / 6 points that could befall me... but this is where I am at! I am loathe to employ a lawyer when all I want to do is explain a very reasonable case.
Any advice welcome, thanks all. Main question is how to plead!
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"A person shall not be guilty of an offence . . . above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was"
- Section 172 (4), Road Traffic Act 1988:
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If, through no fault of your own, the NIP didn't arrive until 11 weeks after the date of the alleged speeding offence, it would seem unreasonable to expect you to recall the exact sequence in which the drivers of the vehicle took the wheel. I'd therefore advise pleading 'not guilty' but I'll happily bow to the greater knowledge and expertise of others on here, such as Eve (solicitor), Barmaid (barrister) or, particularly, New Judge.
- Section 172 (4), Road Traffic Act 1988:
http://
If, through no fault of your own, the NIP didn't arrive until 11 weeks after the date of the alleged speeding offence, it would seem unreasonable to expect you to recall the exact sequence in which the drivers of the vehicle took the wheel. I'd therefore advise pleading 'not guilty' but I'll happily bow to the greater knowledge and expertise of others on here, such as Eve (solicitor), Barmaid (barrister) or, particularly, New Judge.
The lateness of the NIP is particularly pertinent as Buenchico has pointed out. Just a few things to be sure of:
1. Are you the registered keeper or did the NIP "do the rounds" (because perhaps it was a leased or company car) before reaching you?
2. Are you sure you informed the DVLA of your change of address as soon as it was reaasonably practical? Perhaps you could let us know the relevant dates.
3. Who have they charged with the original offence (speeding)? Speeding can only be charged where the driver has been identified and you have not done so.
1. Are you the registered keeper or did the NIP "do the rounds" (because perhaps it was a leased or company car) before reaching you?
2. Are you sure you informed the DVLA of your change of address as soon as it was reaasonably practical? Perhaps you could let us know the relevant dates.
3. Who have they charged with the original offence (speeding)? Speeding can only be charged where the driver has been identified and you have not done so.
Hi, sorry for delay.
1. I am the RK.
2. I let the DVLA know within 7 days; the doc ref on the new V5 is 18 May, so three weeks after the alleged offence.
3. They have charged me with both offences.
Looking likely, after some local-area legal advice, that pleading guilty to the SP30 will prompt the S172 charge to be dropped. This sucks - as I will not be 100% sure of the driver's identity (so a serious moral dilemma) - but the alternative is (potentially) a 9 point hit, but more likely a 6 point MS90 conviction. And suggesting that my wife was the driver looks exceptionally suspicious (regardless of what actually happened), especially after Huhne case and I am not even sure if the mechanism exists for this to happen. I think the law is pretty bad here (like you don't know that?) but I fear I am not the person to fight that.
1. I am the RK.
2. I let the DVLA know within 7 days; the doc ref on the new V5 is 18 May, so three weeks after the alleged offence.
3. They have charged me with both offences.
Looking likely, after some local-area legal advice, that pleading guilty to the SP30 will prompt the S172 charge to be dropped. This sucks - as I will not be 100% sure of the driver's identity (so a serious moral dilemma) - but the alternative is (potentially) a 9 point hit, but more likely a 6 point MS90 conviction. And suggesting that my wife was the driver looks exceptionally suspicious (regardless of what actually happened), especially after Huhne case and I am not even sure if the mechanism exists for this to happen. I think the law is pretty bad here (like you don't know that?) but I fear I am not the person to fight that.
The first thing that came to mind when I read this was the much publicised almost identical case involving the Hamilton couple who successfully won their innocence on the grounds that they couldn't remember who was driving, and I believe that you have a much stronger defence by having changed driver more than once, and with a good legal representative I think you should win.
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