M6 North

[TWR]

Local news, HGV's in another accident, why do these keep happening? it seems everyday these accidents happen, what causes these? is Inexperience the cause or drivers being tired? it was never like this years gone by & it's not only in Lanc's it's all over the country's Motorways.

[TWR]

M5 Many years ago Mikey, car driver kept Slowing / Tapping his brakes in front of me, I pulled over to the Emergency Phones( No cab phones then) I was told to park up on the Hard Should for 20 mins to let that other driver go, I then replied, you can then come along and book me for a Non Emergency stop.

[mikey4444]

TWR...I don't know but was he trying to keep to the 50mph limit ?

[vulcan42]

When the motorways first appeared in this country, they used to have openings between the two carriageways with rubber bollards blocking them. They were designed to allow emergency vehicles to get to an incident quicker than going to the next slip road. Over the years these have been replaced by continuous barricades for safety reasons, although I don't believe it was ever proved that the "openings" contributed to accidents. If they were still there traffic cold be easily diverted to the opposite road. It comes under the heading "progress is exchanging one nuisance for another".

[bhg481]

I think that people who had missed an exit were seen removing the cones to get on to the opposite carriageway might have had something to do with it.

[mikey4444]

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of the Highways Agency, to put firm but removable access every few miles in the central reservation.

[vulcan42]

bhg481, thank you for your answer, i hadn't heard of that. So it's the usual story of a few selfish people spoiling it for the majority.

[bhg481]

I'm not saying that it is the reason vulcan but I've seen it done. Couldn't believe my eyes when someone on the west-bound hard shoulder of the M4, near Slough, as it happens, pulled off the shoulder and dived across on to the east-bound carriagway. It was about 30 years ago - you'd never cross the traffic nowadays.

[Old_Geezer]

"to put firm but removable access every few miles in the central reservation"

That had occurred to me but it would need to be as tough as the non-removable bits; and there would be a lot of them along every motorway, most of which won't get used. I'd suspect and analysis would show it wasn't financially justifiable, as if you are in an unfortunate jam, you can wait. It isn't every day you get into one.

There are normal exits every few miles, unfortunately not all go to a roundabout which lets you go back to where you came. I like the idea of the police directing folk back to the previous exit in a controlled manner. There'd still be jams but at least it should ease the situation.

[Old_Geezer]

...suspect AN analysis ...

[sunny-dave]

Whilst (obviously) not blaming the Police for the original accidents, I do have real issues with how they deal with the aftermath.

If you compare/contrast with France where the modus operandi is :

1. Get the injured out of harms way
2. Get the road open as soon as is conceivably possible - just shunt the wreckage out of the way to be dealt with at a future (quiet) time
3. Sort out blame and consequences later

Our Police seem to be :

1. Get the injured out of harms way
2. Spend as long as necessary establishing the causes of and blame for the accident
3. Then spend a bit longer, just in case
4. Then check you have spent long enough establishing the causes of and blame for the accident
5. Then remove all the wreckage
6. Repair the road until it is 'better than new'
7. Reluctantly let the poor trapped motorists filter through (as slowly as possible)

I'm (of course) exaggerating for effect - but not by very much.

[vulcan42]

It seems the police in other countries have different priorities to our own. Here the police hold up traffic to establish what went wrong and who is to blame, whereas in New Zealand the police main aim is to get the road opened as quickly as possible and get the traffic moving again.
The situation in this country will only get worse as more and more hard shoulders become traffic lanes.

[vulcan42]

apologies sunny-dave, we cross posted.

[Hopkirk]

I think the M6 us particularly susceptible. It is an old motorway with short slip roads. A couple of the junctions are close to sweeping curves that mean visibility is reduced where traffic joins and leaves. In particular near Stoke and Sandbach, and it is no surprise that many accidents happen there.

[jno]

if someone's going to be prosecuted over an accident, he/she might like the opportunity to prove how it happened, which may be more difficult if the vehicles have been swept away off the road before anyone's been able to take photos or measurements.

[Hopkirk]

Jno, with a bit of investment they could easily speed up taking evidence. Just use drones equipped with HD cameras, then get the road open. It is crazy how long they shut roads for.

[douglas9401]

A lot of investigation seems to be seat of the pants junk science, guessing if this or that mark is from a particular vehicle and taking measurements accordingly.

Always remember though, when a policeman stretches that white cover over his hat to signify 'traffic' he immediately becomes superhuman and will use his powers of law and order, deduction and sarcasm to the fullest.
No-one else in the world has needs or worries that matter.

Not all of course, but most that I've conversed with over 40 years.

[TWR]

Sunny, you have that 100% right, they cause more hold up's than the accident.

[whiskeryron]

In my motoring days Heavy goods drivers were the knights of the road, now of course they come from all over the world & drive on our roads that are foreign to them. It may be a good idea to force all goods vehicles to use only the left lane on motorways & keep traffic segregated. The problem would be of course car breakdowns & getting over to use the hard shoulder