Differential Justice

[sunny-dave]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/women-must-face-the-same-justice-as-men-xcmcx7d5j

Irritatingly, this excellently argued article is inside The Times paywall - it's well worth registering to read it though.

A couple of extracts :

"The Equal Treatment Bench Book has a section on Gender Equality which might be more appropriately titled Gender Special Treatment. It quotes Baroness Hale of Richmond, now the president of the Supreme Court, who argued that “a male-ordered world has applied to [women] its perceptions of the appropriate treatment for male offenders” and said: “The criminal justice system could . . . ask itself whether it is indeed unjust to women.” It also suggests that those sentencing must be “made aware of the differential impact sentencing decisions have on women and men”. All of which implies that if a man and woman have committed the same crime, the woman should be treated with more “understanding” and leniency. Her sex is a mitigating factor in itself."

"It is no surprise, therefore, that according to the criminal justice figures from 2015, men were almost twice as likely to be put into immediate custody for an indictable offence as women. Under similar criminal circumstances, men were 88 per cent more likely to be sent to prison. For vehicle-related theft as a first offence, men were three times more likely to be imprisoned. For violence against the person, again as a first offence, it was almost three times as likely. Across the categories men were much more likely to do time for a first offence."

This is just wrong - patently we are not all "equal before the law" - why should women be spared punishment purely because of their sex?

[Buenchico]

The Times seem to be rather slow in catching up with the Daily Mail.

From 2010:
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20100911/283317518743143
(Drag the page to the left to read the full article)

[anotheoldgit]

Totally agree, women can't expect to be treated any different than men, aren't they always crying out for equality?

[douglas9401]

"- why should women be spared punishment purely because of their sex?"

I don't have an answer Dave, but an ologist will no doubt be along with the whys and wherefors shortly.

The ladies of the parish may also provide insight in their inimitable way too.

[emmie]

I wonder at that myself, we should be treated equally.

[Mamyalynne]

Can't disagree with anything said in your OP Dave.

Any difference in handling a case must not be based on the sex of the offender.

[Buenchico]

For those who'd prefer to read the full document (rather than paragraphs selected, and thus possibly presented out of context, by the media), see Section 11 here:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/publications/equal-treatment-bench-book/

[jno]

women can't expect to be treated any different than men, aren't they always crying out for equality

women currently earn about 14% less than men, so I can't see any problem with them being sent to prison 12% less often.

Why are people so eager to see them getting an equal amount of bad things, but not bothered that they get less of the good things?

[jno]

Mamya, at a guess, I'd say the disparities in pay and in prison sentences derive from the same fact: that women are more likely to be responsible for child-rearing.

[sunny-dave]

The law already says that women should get paid the same as men - for equal work of equal value.

I can see how differential income could/should affect the level of fines for wrongdoing, dragging it into a discussion of imprisonment makes no sense at all.

[sunny-dave]

None of the 'headline' cases referred to in the article relate to women with children - they are all young women with no more 'responsibilities' than a man of the same age.

[sunny-dave]

In any case, why should the ability to breed be a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" - given the time-lag between offence and conviction it would seem to be all to easy to play ... ?

[jno]

The law already says that women should get paid the same as men - for equal work of equal value.

but they aren't. Exhibit A: the BBC.

When they get pay justice, I'll start fretting about criminal justice.

[ToraToraTora]

Finally an advantage to changing sex!

[sunny-dave]

Two wrongs don't make ... anything useful.

[jno]

it's not the abillity to breed that matters, it's who actually uses their time to raise the children.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319687.php

[jno]

Two wrongs don't make anything useful

sure, but how many threads have you started about the need for equal pay?

[emmie]

i would say that most women who have children are the one's who bear the brunt of caring for said children, so perhaps some judges are swayed by the fact sending a woman to prison who has them, will be detrimental to the child's welfare.

[emmie]

http://www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php

makes interesting reading

[Mamyalynne]

I have obviously answered the wrong question - my reply was regarding crime and how cases are handled.

Sorry.

[sunny-dave]

"how many threads have you started about the need for equal pay? "

None that I can remember - although I'm sure I've commented in favour on other people's threads - possibly because my personal experience in both British Gas and the NHS was that women in my specialist areas were paid (at least) as well as men, had similar career opportunities and were not disadvantaged by maternity. So it's not a hobbyhorse for me.

But I fail to see why my posting (or not) on one subject invalidates my post/opinion on another - except as a useful smokescreen in lieu of any decent argument.