Yellow Box Junctions – Again

[Hymie]

In this video, the BlackBeltBarrister is of the view that Barnet Council are in error, fining the motorist in this instance – what do you think?

 

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[Old_Geezer]

I think the yellow boxes are a daft idea. No good driver deliberately tries to block a road. Sometimes one can inadvertently get caught, especially in lanes if some moron switches lanes in front of you to take the space you were going to. It is not a valid excuse to play Dick Turpin vs the road user by an uncaring morally vacant council. It's just another abuse of the people.

[Hymie]

As per the video, if your exit is clear at the moment of entering the junction box, then regardless of what causes you to stop in the junction box; you have not committed a driving offence.

 

However, the authorities are not interested in guilt (or not), just your money.

[Hopkirk]

Try driving an articulated lorry. If you don't enter the box until there is a space ahead big enough for your vehicle, you will wait until midnight.

[andy-hughes]

I think the driver, and the barrister, are right, and the council is wrong.

As explained, when the car turning right enters the box junction, his exit path is clear.

He could not have known that the car turning left was going to block his exit - espeically since the lane from which the left-turning vehicle is coming from, is also for straight-on traffic.

It is reasonable to assume that the blocking vehicle was eithe going to come straight through the junction - no problem, or turn left and clear the junction.

In my view, the penalised motorist could not reasonably have anticipated that the left-turning car would block his exit.

Therefore, again in my view, the penalty is unwarrented, and should not have been issued.

[jno]

intersections along that stretch of road are pretty terrible. Like OG I think yellow boxes are a con: nobody stops and waits at a yellow box until there's a car's length of free space on the other side, people just follow the car in front at a reasonable distance for their speed, and hope that nobody will suddenly brake.

As for this instance, yes, it's pretty clear the law has not been broken.

[jourdain2]

The council is in error so far as I can see.

Laws and rules cannot encompass every situation and reality and common-sense have to come into play.... at least that's what's used to happen.

If anyone is interested - I knew the chap who designed the box junction.  He was quite small, terribly nice, called Leon, lived in France Profonde with his Chinese wife - and wrote a stonkingly good story about a lobster and a crab in a tank in a restaurant in Paris during the German occupation.  (The Germans put a stop to the fishing-out of live shellfish to cook before your eyes.) Well, he was a nice chap and his invention did savea lot of llives. :)

[jno]

ah yes, what Hopkirk said while I was still typing. But it applies to little Hondas too.

[Hymie]

jno said //nobody stops and waits at a yellow box until there's a car's length of free space on the other side//

I do; but then if everyone did, the traffic flow would be so slow (with such spacing between vehicles).

[jno]

indeed, and it doesn't happen round my way, Hymie (that's Cricklewood Broadway in the clip). If traffic is already heavy or slow I'll be more cautious; but really I decide whether to enter a box on the basis of what traffic's ahead of me and how smoothly it's going.

[Hymie]

A junction box near to where I live is positioned as you approach a T-junction - there is just enough space after the junction box for two vehicles, one turning right and one left (prior to the junction box there is only one traffic lane).

 

The purpose of the junction box is to prevent stationary vehicles blocking an entrance used by delivery vehicles – I could count the number of vehicles I’ve seen obeying the junction box rules on the fingers of one hand.  There are no enforcement cameras covering the junction box, but on a typical day, I would conservatively estimate that well over 1,000 vehicles end up stationary (in the box) behind a vehicle turning left or right.

 

The junction box is approximately two vehicles in lengths, when I am stationary waiting to pass through the junction box, I think to myself that the drivers behind me must be thinking why does Hymie not enter the box – does he think the road is about to swallow him up, or something.

[Paul22118]

One of the major problems of traffic law enforcement today is that there is no discretion by camera. Regardless of the circumstances e.g. travelling at 40 mph in a thirty limit at 4am Sunday morning in rural Wales. With yellow boxes the camera will see the stationary vehicle in the box and apparently is not turning right.  They may have turned right to achieve that position, but at the 'moment', they are not turning.  The camera sees this as an offence. If one applies the same situation to our grey car through the eyes of an enforcer, the most that would develop is advice to the grey car driver about 'trying' to ensure his exit is clear or at least have a space that can accommodate his car.  This ticket should be appealed.

[CrapatCryptics2]

Most of the boxes around my town are barely visible but many people ignored them before they faded.

[ToraToraTora]

He was a bit unlucky with that black car taking his place but yes the council is wrong. He entered the box when his exit was clear. Ironically there was space for him to go to the right hand side of the black car and get off the box then he'd have been ok.

[THECORBYLOON]

I'm wondering why they have separate side-by-side boxes, as indicated by the second and third yellow lines running top to bottom of the screen?