Gripe water - help or hinderance

[warpig3]

I have given my baby gripe water to help with her wind (both burps and bottom). Now I know this is a tried and tested remedy for wind for over 150 years but someone I know says that because it contains sodium bicarbonate that it may actually not help but exaccerbate the problem.

The ingredients are Sodium bicarbonate 50mg, maltitol liquid (E965) and sodium citrate, per 5 ml liquid.

So, what do you think, any scientists out there who know the positive/negative effects of sodium bicarb?

Thanks
warpig

[lou 26]

im no scientist, lol, but when my daughter was a baby i gave her gripe water and it just made her sick. I only tried it twice and both times she was sick so i switched to infacol

[stonekicker]

Hi, Warpig3. I'm not sure about the scientific response to your question, but as a mum I fed my child gripe water to deal with this problem and it worked a treat - particularly around times of weaning, teething and tummy troubles! I have also drunk it myself when really bloated or uncomfortable with good effects and it tastes lovely as well. If it works for your sprog, don't listen to others who will try to pooh-pooh (sorry!) your methods, just consider what others say. At the end of the day - mum (and dad, too) mostly know what's best.
Stonekicker

[spaced]

infacol usually only works for very young babies (newborns), after about 2 months ut no longer works. Gripe water works a treat with my 4mth old

Each baby is different: what might work with one wont with another

[theprof]

You can safely ignore the opinion you've been given warpig3. Much of the scares regarding gripe-water revolved around a few theoretical principles which have never proved to be harmful to babies if gripe water is taken at the recommended dosage. I'll try to explain.

The first theoretical cause for concern is indeed sodium bicarbonate, which can cause a wide range of symptoms including raising the pH of the blood, muscle tremors and other dangerous effects when taken in excess. An excess of gripe water containing sodium bicarbonate could, in theory, raise an infants blood pH to a dangerous level, but the reality is that only a handful of such cases have ever been reported in the medical literature in decades.

Whilst it is important that the pH of an infants blood and body is maintained within set parameters, as far as bicarbonate is concerned, the body does have a method of converting bicarbonate ions into carbonic acid which is then excreted by the lungs as carbon dioxide. Nevertheless, changes to the natural pH of the stomach and the body should be avoided at all costs as it can result in alkalosis, which is dangerous, due to the kidneys reabsorbing much of the bicarbonate during filtration. However, a few teaspoons of gripe water per day will not cause alkalosis and gripe water can be regarded as harmless from a therapeutic standpoint.

[theprof]

The second problem with gripe water (or at least, the traditional versions), is the ethyl alcohol (ethanol) they contain. Ethanol has been included in such products as it has, what used to be called, a �carminative� effect on the stomach. Amongst other things, this refers to its ability to expel intestinal and stomach gas in either direction. It�s excellent at its job in infants but just like in adults, ethanol will cause sedation. Infants are obviously more sensitive to the low alcohol concentration.Now, this sedation may be acceptable to a distraught mother at the end of her tether with a crying infant, but from an ethical standpoint, many have said it should not be acceptable. Furthermore the homeopathic bandwagon some years ago presented compelling evidence that an infant who develops a �taste� for alcohol at an early age, may suffer withdrawal symptoms when denied it subsequently. In turn, this might possibly lead to potential addiction. Largely because of this, I await correction, but I don�t think there�s a single gripe-water on the market nowadays that contains ethanol. Personally, I went through bottles of Dinneford�s myself, which may well explain my fondness for the grape!

Incidentally as far as modern versions of gripe-water are concerned, nothing much has changed at all. They still invariably contain Dill in one form or another along with various other herb extracts such as ginger and fennel. The homeopaths would have you believe that their products are groundbreaking, but the only thing they�ve done is to remove the bicarbonate and ethanol from a product that�s largely remained unchanged for well over a century.

If you're happy with it, keep giving it.

[warpig3]

Thank you all for your answers. I do appreciate that some for some babies it works and for others it doesnt.

Prof, thank you for your answer, that is exactly what I was looking for. The person who queried the sodium bicarb showed me the chemical equation for mixing sodium bicarb with acid and the resultant reaction. In the equation he used, as the acid, either hydrocloric acid or sulphuric acid, sorry cant remember which but either way a very very strong acid which he said is contained in the stomach (I had to accept his example due to my complete lack of knowledge in all things scientific). One of the resultant products was CO2 (I think, but definitely a gas of some sort) and he stated that as a gas it would increase the wind problem not decrease it. Again, as I have no understanding of such things I was not equiped to challenge him and my only argument was that this was a tried and tested remedy for over 150 years.

As an example he mixed the gripe water with household malt vinegar to show me the reaction. And I have to say I was completely unimpressed as there was no reaction, I was expecting the two combined liquids to fizz and effervesce, but no, nothing!!!!!

[warpig3]

Oops, sorry Prof, hadn't finished (pressed wrong button). Do you think it is possible that the gas produced in the chemical reaction between sodium bicarb and stomach acid could increase wind in an infant or be such that the gas bubbles produced are smaller therefore reducing the problem (hope that makes sense)

Many thanks
warpig

[bigmamma]

I've never used gripe water warpig , and we didn't use it in our unit , just warm water to drink . xxxxxx

[warpig3]

Hi bigmamma, was there any particular reason why gripe water wasnt used?

[theprof]

Thanks warpig3.

If your well-meaning acquaintance was out to show you the chemical reaction between stomach acid and sodium bicarbonate, he would have used hydrochloric acid in his equation (HCl). This is the acid that's contained in the stomach and it's at a fair "strength" to do its job. This is probably the equation he wrote:

NaHCO3 + HCl = NaCl + H2O + CO2

This equation is all very well in laboratory situations where say a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda had a good measure of acid added to it. In fact, I well remember the mess I allowed my son to make by quickly sealing a spoonful of bicarbonate of soda and a couple of tablespoons of vinegar inside an plastic photographic film canister.

However, you have to remember that this reaction is nowhere near as vigorous in an infants stomach. With gripe water, we're talking in terms of milligrams of sodium bicarbonate per 100ml of the gripe water. Consequently, when gripe water reaches the stomach a reatively small amount of carbon dioxide is produced in the reaction. Bearing in mind, what I said earlier about the methods the body uses to get rid of the gas, the carbon dioxide is easily got rid of via a good burp and any residual gas is removed via the lungs. Because of the body's ability to clear out carbon dioxide in this way, the additional small production of carbon dioxide provides relief for the infant as opposed to making matters worse as the equation would seem to show.

[theprof]

I suppose in essence it could be said that this is one of those situations where you can make things worse to make them better, ie the small additional volume of gas produced in the infants stomach is enough to just tip the stomach over the maximum gas it can tolerate. This in turn, causes the burping reflex, which removes pretty well all the gas from the stomach. So yes, you could say that gripe water momentarily increases wind in an infant, but it's soon expelled.

If your "scientific" acquantance knew his stuff, he should have realised that there's insufficient sodium bicarbonate in gripe water to cause the reaction he was trying to show. Now while the stomach hydrochloric acid is stronger than vinegar, the reaction is hardly more vigorous because there's so little bicarbonate in the gripe water.

Incidentally on a personal note, I've had a particularly relevant experience about this a couple of hour ago. I became a grandfather for the fourth time last week and was in the process of "winding" Megan, when she decided to promptly deposit her stomach contents on the shoulder my suit jacket. Oh how they laughed.

[grasscarp]

I had 2 children. One loved it and it worked. The other hated it.

[warpig3]

Prof thank you for your explanation, go straight to the top of the class!

Yes, the equation you worte looks like the one he wrote but your explanation of the reaction makes perfect sense and I can now understand it clearly.

I shall endeavour to impart this info to 'said' acquaintance who happens to be mrwarpig, ha, ha, so you can see the predicament I am in!!!! Dare I call into question his scientific knowledge??????

Also, congratulations on the birth of your new grand daughter, pity about your jacket though (I laughed too when I read that!). Kids eh?

grasscarp, as you can see from the other replies, it seems to depend on the baby, not easy this baby malarkey is it!

thank you everyone for your replies, the piglet is still f@rting away like a little trooper, gripe water or no gripe water!

Ta muchly
warpig

[theprof]

Thanks warpig3.

I sympathise with your predicament but I'm the last person you should ask for advice - mrs prof is an academic too and when we start arguing over anything to do with medicine, there's skin and hair flying everywhere!

[warpig3]

I understand completely Prof, whilst I am not a scientific person I do question things just as mrwarpig does, sadly I dont have the scientific knowledge to challenge him on things I know nothing about but I can't just accept things he says on face value (makes for an interesting relationship!!!) As for you and mrsprof discussing things medical , oh, to be a fly on the wall for that!!!!

but I really do appreciate your time on this one, I may not relay it to him but at least I know. Am sitting here at stupid o'clock in the morning trying to settle baby (5 weeks) and wondering who has control of this household, certainly not me or mrwarpig!!!!!!

I dont think the gripe water worked with Lexi but guess that is the way things go but I will save you info for a later date, of that you can be sure.

Many thanks for your help.
A very tired warpig (sadly, not so tired Lexi!)

p.s. I know a good dry cleaners if your jacket needs one!!!

[theprof]

I'm very glad to have been able to help warpig3. It really does make it all worthwhile. Keep on questioning these things - that's how we all learn.

mrs prof doesn't get it all her own way. I'm an advisor at the university medical school in which she works part-time as a senior clinician as well as my own university department. Thanks to the archaic ranking system in my university, I'm much more senior than she is. If she upsets me at home, I arrange for her head of department to wind her up at work!

mrsprof and I both send you our best wishes and sincerely hope you'll be back to normal soon.