Number plates

[masma]

My daughter has received a fine (£60) for her 'registration failing to conform'
She has had the car and number plates for 7 years without any problem. The numbers and letters are of the correct size but there is a very small 3 lions logo to one side.
Is this really an offence and if it is why are these plates still being sold?
She rang the police and they'd never heard of it.

[paddywak]

Ever since I got my first car in 1971 I've always had the Cross of St George (I'm not BNP or anything just English) on my number plates and I've never had any problems, if you look there are 1000's of cars with the similar plates but if it's against the law or not I really don't know, perhaps she just had the misfortune to run into some bored jobsworth

[ChuckFickens]

3 lions is not an allowed emblem to have on the plate.

you are allowed the Euro sign (ring of stars) a union flag, or a St Georges cross and thats it for England (the St Andrews cross and the welsh dragon are also OK)

It may seem petty, but that is the law and it's lucky she got away with it for 7 years.

[redcrx]

http://www.regtransfe...lates_regulations.asp

Permitted but not required:
•3D variation of the mandatory ‘Charles Wright 2001’ font
•Coloured, non-reflective border
•National emblem: English St George Cross with “ENG” legend, Scottish St Andrew Cross with “SCO” legend, Welsh Dragon with “WALES” and “CYMRU” legend, British Union Flag with “GB” legend) or Euro Stars symbol with “GB” legend.

[paddywak]

Interesting to know just what's allowed in law, still it does seem a bit petty if the emblem is not preventing recognition of the actual numbers

[R1Geezer]

Yes it is technically and offence. However lots of the plates on the road are illegal too so this must have been a monumental jobsworth! Many places sell illegal plates by adding the rider "Not for road use". It is then the responsibility of he buyer.

[Graham-W]

I wonder if the car should have passed its MOT all these years or are numberplates not part of the test.

[ABerrant]

Under the original regulations for EU style registration plates introduced into British law in 2001, the only insignia allowed was the 12-star circle of the European Union. Motorists had to choose either a plain plate without a symbol, or one with the EU emblem and the letters GB on the left-hand side.

The Government then claimed they would also allow national flags (English, Welsh and Scottish) but spectacularly failed to amend the law.

No other symbols have ever been allowed.

http://www.dailymail....ars-saying-would.html

[masma]

Thank you all for your replies.
We've just been to Halfords to get the new plates and they sell the same ones (and others) as my daughter's, when we asked the assistant about it she said they weren't aware of any such law.
All in all this jobsworth has cost her £100 and while I agree that the law is the law this should be made more public.
Thanks again x

[TWR]

Masma, I would Question this fine, the No plate is obviously a requirement of the law, the makers of the No plate should be up on size, shape, length, with & what is put onto the plate when it is pressed, do you know where & who made the plate? if so contact them, do not take this sitting down, after all we as the public do not have the means to put these plates together.

[Andyvon]

I'm wondering whether this is to do with the automatic number plate recognition devices that are now being fitted to police cars. Maybe an unrecognised symbol affects the machine's ability to read the number.

[joko]

you could have just painted it out...

[joko]

i would suggest you appeal this...its ridiculous...you did not make them yourself and you trusted the seller (refer them to halfords selliung them) and you dont see why you should be held respossible...it is not unreasonable of you to have trusted a seller like halford, and it is perhaps them that they should be directing their fines too...
not also that it was not an attepmt to distort numbers

mention even that you may speak to your local paper

[sigma]

You have no come back on the seller. Why ?, because it's not illegal to sell them only illegal to use them.

[bobjugs12]

So if I bought a kitchen knife from Tesco, then stabbed someone it's Tescos fault? Awesome, i'm off down the Guns and Explosives aisle at Asda!

[New Judge]

Yes indeed. Either that or your daughter can save herself some time and a lot more money by accepting the penalty and moving on.

If she has already paid the fixed penalty it is not recoverable. If she has not and intends to refuse to do so she will be summonsed to a hearing at the magistrates’ court. There she will either have to plead guilty with mitigation (of which, frankly, she has very little). She will almost certainly be fined more than £60 and have to pay prosecution costs of about £80 and a £15 victim surcharge. Alternatively she may plead not guilty and face a trial. If convicted (which is almost a certainty) she will lose the one third discount off the fine (which she would get for a guilty plea) and pay considerably increased prosecution costs, probably in the order of £300 (the increase being because the matter had to be prepared for trial).

This regulation is almost certainly in place because of the ANPR requirements as outlined by Andyvon. The fault really lies with the seller of the number plates. You do not say if your daughter bought the originals from Halfords but they are clearly supplying them and a large concern like that should be aware of the law and instruct their staff accordingly. I do agree that the law should be tightened so that non-compliant number plates are not supplied by registered suppliers. However, the responsibility to comply with the law lies with the owner and/or the driver.

I would not recommend joko’s course of action. It is not always possible to pass one’s responsibilities on to somebody else however unfairly you think you may have been treated. Joko seems to think that if you dislike something sufficiently it is worth launching a fruitless court case which will end up costing your daughter dearly. I also think it is unlikely that the DVLA will be cowered into submission by the threat of exposure in your local rag.

[bobjugs12]

Judge does this mean I can't stuff up with my Tesco Value Semtex?

[New Judge]

'Fraid not, bob.

[masma]

Yes she's paid the fine and sent a letter of objection, she's a very sensible girl and would never have used the plates had she known they were illegal. I did suggest to her that she paint them out but as she said this jobsworth would've done her for that as well. I measured the England logo and it was 1" x 1 1/2". The number plate is a standard one with this added on.
Hey ho - thanks for your replies x

[Raleigh]

Is it not time for this farce of allowing almost anyone to produce number plates was ended? It should be done by ONE controlled agency as in most - if not all - other countries. Friends and relatives from abroad are always amazed that motorists in this country get away with sticking completely unreadable plates to their vehicles to avoid cameras, penalties and the chance of their number being easily taken if involved in crime.

[joko]

new judge...i suggest you re-read my comment...i was not suggesting a courtcase at all!

nor was i saying that she should complain because she dislikes it...!

talk about adding your own spin on things!!

to reiterate - as you seem to need it - i suggested she write a letter of appeal - explaining the situation and that its unfair to charge her when she bought plates in good faith - from a respected place like halfords...
who really would have gone away and checked that they were allowed?
it certainly worth a try.

i have been let off 1 parking ticket and had one reduced by doing exactly this...