Travel3 mins ago
Speeding fine query part 2!
Folllowing on from my other thread, my dad got another letter through today saying he would get 3 points and a £60 fine. There was no option of the course instead just that he could take it to court if he wanted to contest it which he does! He still doesn't believe he was doing 10mph over the limit and wants them to prove it. So if he does go to court what will happen? Will it end up costing him more? He has done this sort of thing before years ago and got away with it so wants to try this time.
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Count Arthur, I think some areas just don't offer them, period.
Just looking back at the question & answer sheet that came with my original form. You may be interested in the following:
"You have the right to challenge this offence in the courts. If you are found guilty, then a magistrate will determine any fine and points that are to be endorsed. YOU ARE REMINDED THAT THE COURTS MAY INCREASE THE FINE AND THE POINTS. YOU MAY ALSO BE ORDERED TO PAY COURT COSTS.".
Now, bearing in mind that most magistrates are self-righteous, holier-than-thou *rude words*, what do you think your dad's chances are ... ?
When I got done the other week, I could have argued that the road was badly signed, clear of other traffic and that I was driving quite safely. That's all true, but 37 mph is 37 mph at the end of the day. Fair cop, gov, as they say. Yes, I feel a bit silly, but I'm not the first and I won't be the last, and it's not the end of the world. And believe me, I'm the most obstinate person I know when I have a point to prove.
You say your dad appealed and won last time? Compare the circumstances then to the circumstances now. And I would suspect that even if he 'got away with it', they would still look at his past record before making their decision.
The points will remain valid for 3 years, but will show on his licence for 4 years. I'd suggest again, if he hasn't already got a dangerous number of points on his licence, pay the £60, take the points and just drive a little more carefully in the future.
Just looking back at the question & answer sheet that came with my original form. You may be interested in the following:
"You have the right to challenge this offence in the courts. If you are found guilty, then a magistrate will determine any fine and points that are to be endorsed. YOU ARE REMINDED THAT THE COURTS MAY INCREASE THE FINE AND THE POINTS. YOU MAY ALSO BE ORDERED TO PAY COURT COSTS.".
Now, bearing in mind that most magistrates are self-righteous, holier-than-thou *rude words*, what do you think your dad's chances are ... ?
When I got done the other week, I could have argued that the road was badly signed, clear of other traffic and that I was driving quite safely. That's all true, but 37 mph is 37 mph at the end of the day. Fair cop, gov, as they say. Yes, I feel a bit silly, but I'm not the first and I won't be the last, and it's not the end of the world. And believe me, I'm the most obstinate person I know when I have a point to prove.
You say your dad appealed and won last time? Compare the circumstances then to the circumstances now. And I would suspect that even if he 'got away with it', they would still look at his past record before making their decision.
The points will remain valid for 3 years, but will show on his licence for 4 years. I'd suggest again, if he hasn't already got a dangerous number of points on his licence, pay the £60, take the points and just drive a little more carefully in the future.
A National Speed Awareness Scheme course is an alternative to prosecution for all speed bands and classes of vehicle speeds except 20 mph zones and based on an offence that is deemed a driver’s mistake, rather than a reckless or intentional act. Previous driving history will not be taken into account when making an offer, however, once a motorist has completed a course they will be ineligible for another course offer if they reoffend within 3 years of the original offence.
All of this information plus the locations where courses are available is easily found within the link I supplied in the previous thread...
http://www.driver-imp...sac-service-providers
All of this information plus the locations where courses are available is easily found within the link I supplied in the previous thread...
http://www.driver-imp...sac-service-providers
[Two Part answer]
Your father should firstly establish whether the Speed Awareness Course is available to him. If it is not, before he makes his decision he should be aware of the potential consequences.
If he declines the offer of a fixed penalty he will be summonsed to court. At the Magistrates’ Court he will be asked to enter a plea in reply to the charge of speeding. If he pleads not guilty the trial will not take place on that day, but a pre-trial hearing will take place. During that hearing he will (among other things) be asked to tell the court what the issue is that leads him to deny the offence. Presumably he will say that he doubts the accuracy of the device that measured his speed.
As a result of that, the prosecution will produce at the trial their expert. He or she will tell the court how the speed camera works, how and when it is calibrated, the details of the measurements taken in your father’s case, and the conclusion reached (i.e. the speed alleged) from those measurements.
It will then be up to your father to cast doubt on the validity of that information. Simply saying, as you have suggested, “I don’t believe it” will not do. He will have to present some information to the court which might suggest that the measurements were in doubt. It seems from what you say that he does not have such information but is instead relying on his own assessment of his speed at the time.
The likely outcome is that the “self-righteous, holier-than-thou” magistrates will prefer the evidence of the expert over your father’s “hunch” that he was not speeding, and he will be convicted. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that’s the way it is likely to end.
Your father should firstly establish whether the Speed Awareness Course is available to him. If it is not, before he makes his decision he should be aware of the potential consequences.
If he declines the offer of a fixed penalty he will be summonsed to court. At the Magistrates’ Court he will be asked to enter a plea in reply to the charge of speeding. If he pleads not guilty the trial will not take place on that day, but a pre-trial hearing will take place. During that hearing he will (among other things) be asked to tell the court what the issue is that leads him to deny the offence. Presumably he will say that he doubts the accuracy of the device that measured his speed.
As a result of that, the prosecution will produce at the trial their expert. He or she will tell the court how the speed camera works, how and when it is calibrated, the details of the measurements taken in your father’s case, and the conclusion reached (i.e. the speed alleged) from those measurements.
It will then be up to your father to cast doubt on the validity of that information. Simply saying, as you have suggested, “I don’t believe it” will not do. He will have to present some information to the court which might suggest that the measurements were in doubt. It seems from what you say that he does not have such information but is instead relying on his own assessment of his speed at the time.
The likely outcome is that the “self-righteous, holier-than-thou” magistrates will prefer the evidence of the expert over your father’s “hunch” that he was not speeding, and he will be convicted. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that’s the way it is likely to end.
[Part Two]
If convicted after trial the magistrates sentencing guidelines for the speed alleged is a fine of half a week’s net income and three penalty points. However, as the matter went to trial an order will be made for a contribution towards prosecution costs (which will be in the region of £350) and a Victim Surcharge of £15 will also be imposed.
Your father is entitled to put the prosecution to proof instead of accepting the fixed penalty. However, exercising that privilege is likely to cost him dearly.
If convicted after trial the magistrates sentencing guidelines for the speed alleged is a fine of half a week’s net income and three penalty points. However, as the matter went to trial an order will be made for a contribution towards prosecution costs (which will be in the region of £350) and a Victim Surcharge of £15 will also be imposed.
Your father is entitled to put the prosecution to proof instead of accepting the fixed penalty. However, exercising that privilege is likely to cost him dearly.
-- answer removed --
Well I will tell him all this but he's very stubborn ha! I think he's been to court twice now, can't remember the first time but he got away with it as they had his details wrong and the second time he was reported to have gone through a red light when it was amber. He won that time too. I realise I'm making him sound like a right law breaker and crap driver but I promise he isn't! He just doesn't want to give them his money without proof.
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