Case So Bad, Jury Excused From Service...
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Whos to blame?
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my wife was driving along a road today after turn left off a roundabout...a driver pulled out of the little chef car park in a 8 wheel tipper wagon in front of my wife ...although my wife tried to swerve around the vehicle she could not avoid a collision...my wifes car is a total write off - but she is okay....when challenged the driver of the wagon said my wife was indicating into the car park...it seems likely that the car indicator was still on as the road is on a bend and as the car had not yet straightened up the indicator had not switched off automatically...but i can't help thinking that the wagon driver is still responsible to ensure the main highway is clear before entering it..any ideas on the legal / insurance situation??
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I'm an 8 wheel tipper driver too, so I'll try and be objective.
I think, but I'm not sure, that it is still an offence to show a wrong signal. Having said that, as so many people don't use any signals nowadays, I make sure that people are going where they indicate they are going! How far up the road was the entrance? This may have a bearing on if it was reasonable for the HGV to assume your wife was pulling in or if he should allowed for it being the end of the signal off the roundabout. I know some Little Chefs are right on the roundabout, so obviously extra caution should be applied. Sorry, this isn't very helpful is it. I wish I could remember the legalities of indicators. Probably going to be a thrash out by the insurance companies.
I think, but I'm not sure, that it is still an offence to show a wrong signal. Having said that, as so many people don't use any signals nowadays, I make sure that people are going where they indicate they are going! How far up the road was the entrance? This may have a bearing on if it was reasonable for the HGV to assume your wife was pulling in or if he should allowed for it being the end of the signal off the roundabout. I know some Little Chefs are right on the roundabout, so obviously extra caution should be applied. Sorry, this isn't very helpful is it. I wish I could remember the legalities of indicators. Probably going to be a thrash out by the insurance companies.
If I remember correctly, a driver should not rely on another's signals as a an intention to perform a specific action. Other variables should be taken into account such as the position and speed of the oncoming vehicle. Therefore the driver of the wagon should not have assumed that it was safe to pull out.
Highway Code rule 104 seems relevant here,
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport /Highwaycode/DG_070289
Highway Code rule 104 seems relevant here,
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport /Highwaycode/DG_070289
103 also says make sure your signals will not confuse others. Relying on a self cancel is not sufficient when there is an entrance soon.
However I never assume that someones indicators are on correctly, and certainly wouldn't in the situation you describe. I would wait until I saw the car change direction to turn in.
Fault on both sides I think, but without seeing the precise layout and distance involved it is hard to make a firm judgement.
However I never assume that someones indicators are on correctly, and certainly wouldn't in the situation you describe. I would wait until I saw the car change direction to turn in.
Fault on both sides I think, but without seeing the precise layout and distance involved it is hard to make a firm judgement.
When learning to drive I was always taught never to rely on others signals, and not to pull out until you see the other vehicle's wheels beginning to turn.
I would say that although your wife was slightly at fault for not cancelling her signal, the accident was the other driver's fault for not ensuring it was safe to pull out
I would say that although your wife was slightly at fault for not cancelling her signal, the accident was the other driver's fault for not ensuring it was safe to pull out
There is a specific case law relating to a "misleading signal" - it escapes me at this moment in time.
Essentially, if your wife was signalling to turn, even if she had left it on, then whilst the tipper driver should have probably waited until he could say 100% that she was turning, this will be a split liability case.
I'm not sure if it ruled something like 80/20 or 70/30 in favour of the person who was indicating.
however, there is definately a ruling on this matter, so the insurance company should settle 100% one way or the other.
Essentially, if your wife was signalling to turn, even if she had left it on, then whilst the tipper driver should have probably waited until he could say 100% that she was turning, this will be a split liability case.
I'm not sure if it ruled something like 80/20 or 70/30 in favour of the person who was indicating.
however, there is definately a ruling on this matter, so the insurance company should settle 100% one way or the other.
The wagon driver is to blame 100%
Your wife was not going into the car park, and if she was, the highway code states that until that vehicle is actually turning or turned into that road ie the car park in this case, the wagon driver should ''NOT ASSUME'' otherwise by just pulling out.
This was brought in because indicators sometimes do not switch themselves off automatically after taking a turn.
I knew a couple of cases like this and on each time the driver pulling out of the side road onto the main road was found guilty solely because the car driver on the main road who was apparently indicating had not actually turned into the road the other car was coming out of.
We've all been there i'm afraid, and in a similar situation to this
Your wife was not going into the car park, and if she was, the highway code states that until that vehicle is actually turning or turned into that road ie the car park in this case, the wagon driver should ''NOT ASSUME'' otherwise by just pulling out.
This was brought in because indicators sometimes do not switch themselves off automatically after taking a turn.
I knew a couple of cases like this and on each time the driver pulling out of the side road onto the main road was found guilty solely because the car driver on the main road who was apparently indicating had not actually turned into the road the other car was coming out of.
We've all been there i'm afraid, and in a similar situation to this
sddsddean.
I cannot believe you have asked why we have indicators at all. pmsl.
We all had driving lessons and ultimately a test which we pass eventually, we all should understand the highway code, if you choose to ignore this code and finish up in an incident/accident, expect a lawyer to have a field day with you.
I appreciate that too many people all to often cannot be ''BOTHERED'' to indicate, but the majority of us are law-abiding citizens who ''DO'' indicate when we need to, there are to many inpatient car drivers these days who i personally would'nt trust them pushing a buggy down the high st.
The bottom line like most thinks in life, if we all abide by the correct procedure {highway code in this instant} many lives will be saved and there will be less incidents/accidents.
I cannot believe you have asked why we have indicators at all. pmsl.
We all had driving lessons and ultimately a test which we pass eventually, we all should understand the highway code, if you choose to ignore this code and finish up in an incident/accident, expect a lawyer to have a field day with you.
I appreciate that too many people all to often cannot be ''BOTHERED'' to indicate, but the majority of us are law-abiding citizens who ''DO'' indicate when we need to, there are to many inpatient car drivers these days who i personally would'nt trust them pushing a buggy down the high st.
The bottom line like most thinks in life, if we all abide by the correct procedure {highway code in this instant} many lives will be saved and there will be less incidents/accidents.
I had one like this, I was pulling on to my drive from the left side of the road and a car hit me on the left side as they were driving on the path at about 40 mph. They tried to say that I was indicating right at the time, even though I have never lived on the right. I was told by the policeman that I could have been indicating to go up in the air but at the end of the day they should not have been doing 40 on the pavement and also should have made allowances (i.e leaving enough space between you and the car in front) for them to complete turns etc. I think that the lorry driver should have waitied until the carriageway was clear, by the way, was he on the phone at all?
Laurence...you contradict yourself. In one instance the lorry driver is 100% to blame for not waiting to see if the car was turning, then you say we should have indicators as some of us are law abiding citizens. Well if the law abiding citizen in the car had turned the indicator off as stated in law 103, the lorry wouldn't have pulled out. (blastrr...not trying to say your wife was at fault , just a 'for instance'). So does this mean that those of us who do use our indicators properly should go round with a sign on the vehicle saying so, so that other drivers will know we know where we are going... or are you just having a go at truck drivers. Believe me, there is nothing more annoying than people not using indicators. It causes me so much hassle every day.
I haven't contridicted myself.
You need to read my post again.
The lorry driver is 100% to blame.
IF the law abiding citizen in the car failed to notice the indicator was still on is not an issue, yes granted they should of noticed it, but the fact still remains the lorry driver was in the wrong, the car driver hit the lorry, so unless the car was going at an excessive speed, it seems the lorry driver pulled out just before the impact, he ASSUMED wrong
End of
You need to read my post again.
The lorry driver is 100% to blame.
IF the law abiding citizen in the car failed to notice the indicator was still on is not an issue, yes granted they should of noticed it, but the fact still remains the lorry driver was in the wrong, the car driver hit the lorry, so unless the car was going at an excessive speed, it seems the lorry driver pulled out just before the impact, he ASSUMED wrong
End of
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Luarence you are wrong - a high court judge decided that a misleading signal makes both parties at fault - it's a case in law, and any insurance company will settle the claim on a split liability basis.
it's a similar situation where a motorcycle is overtaking someone who is indicating to turn right - you hit them off thier bike because they are clearly not taking notice of the indicator, but equally you should check your mirror before turning.
It's never clear cut 100% at fault.
Granted the lorry driver SHOULD have waited until the lady had turned into the junction (or not as the case was), but equally, she SHOULD have cancelled the indicator.
it's a similar situation where a motorcycle is overtaking someone who is indicating to turn right - you hit them off thier bike because they are clearly not taking notice of the indicator, but equally you should check your mirror before turning.
It's never clear cut 100% at fault.
Granted the lorry driver SHOULD have waited until the lady had turned into the junction (or not as the case was), but equally, she SHOULD have cancelled the indicator.
