Turning right on a roundabout from the left hand lane

[hazy52]

I was involved in an accident on a roundabout. I approached in the right hand lane of a 3 lane dual carriageway to go straight on. The first exit is a retail park left, the 2nd exit is a left turn, the 3rd exit is straight on with two lanes, 4th exit service road and the 5th exit goes back the way I came.

Another car was in the left hand lane and we started onto the roundabout together. The other car passed the 2nd exit and appeared to be taking the turning wide for exit 3 and I hung back a little expecting him to straddle the two lanes of the exit I was taking. However, he pulled in front of my car to go right around the roundabout. I swerved but could not avoid a collision and damaged the front left wing, side of the tyre and left front lights. The damage to his car was rear driver's side door. His defense was that he was indicating right but I was also indicating left to come off the roundabout.

The highway code clearly states that he should have been in the right hand lane to go right around the roundabout but am flabbergasted to receive a letter from the insurers today holding me totally to blame! I was initially told that without witnesses it would go 50/50 worst case scenario but I was adamant that I was not to blame and requested that they fight it. I even sent in a detailed diagram even though this was not requested because I can explain myself better by drawing. The whole claim has been dealt with by phone.

I am not taking this without a fight but does anyone think I have a chance and should I involve a solicitor? The other driver has initiated a claim against me for injury (whiplash? because he was not injured at the scene) and damage to the car via a firm of solicitors.

[hazy52]

Hi Everyone

Thank you for so much advice it is encouraging that "strangers" are agreeing that he did the wrong manouvre.

I phoned the insurance company this morning, half an hour after they started work, and was told that the file was with the department that dealt with disputes and they were aiming to get the other party to take the fault. The letter should not have been sent to me! I told him it was dated the 1st August and had taken a week to arrive and evidently other people had been calling with the same comment. I have had a terrible weekend because of this letter but all I got was rambled off apology. I now have to call back Wednesday and see what progress has been made.

[Barmaid]

What procedure do you use Terambulan? The Magistrates COurts only deal with crime and quasi criminal matters, plus family. Whereas the County Court (normally a District Judge) deals with these matters under the Small Claims Procedure.

[Barmaid]

And I completely agree with you about the Small Claims Court being available to the lay individual as well as the professional, indeed this is what it was designed for. The SCC is far friendly than the Mags Courts anyday.

[terambulan]

Well you could be right as it may have been the County Court......tis my local Court, I know where it is and was informed it was a Magistrate (singular person) who dealt with the cases.

[tombrandy]

The other driver was most certainly to blame, see a solicitor,,,any witnesses?,or CCTV?

[Barmaid]

Ah i get you now. You very often get a single Judge (known as a District Judge or a Stipendiary Magistrate) sitting alone in the Mags Court (normally it is a bench of three lay magistrates). You ALSO get DJ's sitting in the County Court (they used to be known as District Registrars, but now all are known as District Judges). The two are very often confused though. Doesn't help that many courts now have "Combined Centres" with the Mags, the County and the Crown all in one building. But this type of case is definitely CC, Small Claims Track. THe Magistrates Court does not have the jurisdiction to deal with these type of cases.

[ROGERDEE]

dont worry about it let the insurence sort it out as long as no one was hurt badly that is why we pay for insurence any corospondence send to your insurence company.

[123everton]

You have three lanes, the left hand lane is for left turns and straight ahead the right hand lane(s) are for turning right only.
That's what I was taught, a long time ago.

[terambulan]

I would advise hazy52 to get her case registered in her local court (they'll direct to correct court) asap and before the other driver does.

Whoever starts the proceedings chooses the court venue!

Get in fast Hazy52 before t'other hauls you to a Court far away.

[david1702198]

christ almighty factor 30 i would say that 90-10 in favour of hazy should give he/she the benefit of the doubt!!

[MartinKeane]

Hazy52 If you are in any doubt how to get around roundabouts google 'Roundabouts wikipedia' and scroll down to history it shows the correct way to ger around

[dishmop]

I was involved in exactly the same type of accident. It took nealry 6 weeks for my insurance company, Highway to send me any accident report forms. I downloaded photographs from Google Earth and sent to them
Couple of weeks ;ate they said they hadnt heard from me and if they didnt get them in 14 days they would close the file inthe other blokes favour. They closed the file after 8 days without even seeing my evidence. Remember this is MY Insurance company. I complaned because I hve lost NCB and so far it has cost me �100. They answered that looking looking at the evidence again the best that they wouldhave come up with was a 50/50. They wrote to me and what they said in answer to my evidence was gobbledygook. They completely overlooked the fact that the other bloke turned right from a left hand lane. Problem is they are not qualified accident investigators. Several years ago I was involved in a similar incident and the other and I called the police and he was done for careless driving. I have complained to the Insurance Ombudsman and I will probalby take the Insurance Co to a smallclaims court.

[dishmop]

I was involved in exactly the same type of accident. After 6 weeks my insurance company, Highway, sent me some accident report forms., I downloaded some photos from Google Earth and sent them together with written evidence. Couple of weeks later I got another letter saying thay hadnt received the form, and that if they didnt get it in 14 days they would close the file in favour of the other driver. 8 days from the date of that letter they closed the file without having seen my evidence. I complained and they contacted my brokers saying that they had looked at the case again and that the best result would have been a 50/50 and that I would therefore still have lost my NCB. The letter they have sent me with thier view of the accident is complete gobbledegook. They havent taken into consideration the fact that the other person was turning right from a lane clearly marked as left and straight.
They refused to send me a copy of his evididence on the grounds that it would contravene the Data Protection Act. I have filled in a complaint form to the Financial Ombudsman and will probably take the Insurance company to the small claims court. Several years ago I was involved in an indentical incident and the police were called. He was charged with careless driving.

Its a pity the people who settle these claims havent got some kind of qualification in relation the accident investigation.

On a lighter note, on 1st Novmber (Saturday) a taxi ran into the back of my wifes car. On Tuesday the taxi insurance company phoned to say the taxi company were admitting full liability, a hire car was delivered the next day, and the engineer came just after. From date of accident to arrival of cheque for car. 10 days..........and thay have also arranged visit to specialist doctor reagarding possible injury.

[dishmop]

Somebody here wrote "right lane for right turn only"

What? even if the lane marking say you can go straight over?

[dishmop]

I have just got hold of a copy of the third party evidence and it shows that he was turning right from a left turn lane. he evens SAYS "as I was passing the 2nd exit"............But my insurance company stillsay that at best it would have been 50/50 and """ Finally, an insurer is contractually entitled to deal with a liability claim entirely at its own discretion"""" even if it is against their own insured customer???? It makes me wonder if they do a lot of this so the they can kill off some of the NCB from a customer.

[hazy52]

Hi Dishmop

I can quite understand your frustration. My claim is still not settled. I telephoned the insurance company last week and the other person's insurance company, SAGA, is not responding to their correspondence and when they telephone they are told to put it in writing. I now believe my company is on my side (at least the person I spoke with last week) and the time before the girl looked at the Google Earth map showing the road markings and seemed incredulous that he had attempted to turn right.

As for SAGA, I wish they were my insurers! They have paid out someone I know who has not declared their 12 points on the licence (was not banned due to mitigating circumstances but the points were left on the licence) and did not have an MOT at the time of the accident. It was not their fault and the car was a write off but if SAGA had done their job properly then the insurance would have been void. I dread to think what would happen if someone had been badly injured as a result of being in a collision with this person. I know that when a relative had a write off he had to produce the driving licences of everyone who was entitled to drive the car which caused a lot of problems as one of them was his daughter who lives overseas and only used the car on odd visits home. The company still insisted on the licence even when the circumstances were explained I suppose it was to get out of paying the claim if there was anything that didn't match the application.

I have discussed my case with a policeman and he said that I should have contacted the police at the time of the accident stating that a road traffic law had been broken and they have to attend even though no injuries were apparent at the time. If I am involved in any accident in the future I will make damn sure that I get the details of any witness even if I have to lie down in front of their car!

I wish you luck with your claim, keep us informed.

[dishmop]

My company are still saying that at best it wouldhave been a 50/50 claim and I would still have lost my NCB. Personally I think they are bluffing because they screwed up and paid out without seeing my evidence. I asked them if the person who made the decision had a driving licence or even a rudimentary understanding of the HIghway Code.

I have shown the other person diagram of the accident to a traffic policeman and he said the other bloke was in the wrong.

Insurance company have said that if I am unhappy with the situation that I can take the other person to court. Thing is, I cant see that I can take him to court because the insurance company made a wring decision, unless if Itke him the court and the court say the bloke WAS in the wrong I canthen put that evidence to the insurance company but then are they legally obliged to reverse thier decision and re-instate my NCB based on the result of the court. I think I ought to take the insurance company to court.

[lucyg]

Hi I know this was a long time ago, but I'm facing a similar situation at the moment. What has happened? Did you take it to court? My insurer has told me to settle 50-50 but we will lose our no claims.

[hazy52]

Hi Lucy

This is still ongoing in fact I am going to call the insurers again today. It has been a nightmare with the other insurance company ignoring mine and losing paperwork (SAGA). We have now had the other man's version of the accident and the only thing he got correct was that the accident happened on a roundabout and he was going to a car showroom! The roundabout he claimed it happened on was two miles away, he said I came onto the roundabout from a one way street (the wrong way) if his diagram is correct despite it being the incorrect roundabout and he claimed I had incorrectly stated where the damage occurred on my car! I was incredulous at the last assertion, my insurers and repairers know that I am correct. The car showroom he claimed he was going to is off the accident roundabout so I don't see how he can dispute my facts which have been consistent.

I am now awaiting response to my rebuttal of all his comments but it took my insurers two weeks to deal with my letter and it has now been a month since they wrote back to SAGA.

I am still hopeful that I will succeed particularly as he is so wrong with everything and he actually stated he was going round the roundabout in the middle lane although there is no middle lane on either of the roundabouts. I cut and pasted the official highway code instruction about negotiating roundabouts into my letter and put in the weblink.

I did consider going to solicitors and still might if I don't get justice but that in itself is an expensive game and I might only get a moral victory and still be out of pocket.

I hope you have more success than I have had up to now. Since the accident I have noticed a lot more (usually older people) taking the wrong lane on roundabouts and cutting people up.

Hazel