Crosswords3 mins ago
Theft from gym locker, i'm in last chance saloon!
25 Answers
Hi, back in August I had my locker broken into while using the gym at a LA Fitness. My wallet, iPhone and keys were stolen along with some clothing. After some back and forths between myself and Royal Sun Alliance (LA Fitness's insurer), they are refusing to pay out on their public liability insurance.
I have put forward a strong case with plenty of cogent arguments (available on request!), but their basic reason for denying negligence (the only way their policy would pay out) is that 'they cannot be held liable for the actions of a stranger', as nobody has been charged with the theft. I have argued that it is just as likely (and very probable in this case) that the theft was committed by a member of their staff, in which case liability is not in question.
Essentially, I want to know if anybody knows if it's worth my while pursuing this. As it stands they have again refused me a penny and the theft cost me something in the region of £2,000. The next stage would be hiring a solicitor, but I don't want to get involved in that if it's going to be a waste of time or money.
Please don't write back along the lines of "...if there is a notice in the changing room saying 'we don't accept liability for loss etc' you're out of luck" as the OFT has already ruled that such signs are an unfair term and anyone with an ounce of common sense should realise that such signs cannot be used as an excuse for negligent practice (apart from RSA though, apparently).
Thanks in advance and apologies for length of post. It could have been much longer if I'd listed all the reasons I think LA Fitness have been negligible in this case.....
I have put forward a strong case with plenty of cogent arguments (available on request!), but their basic reason for denying negligence (the only way their policy would pay out) is that 'they cannot be held liable for the actions of a stranger', as nobody has been charged with the theft. I have argued that it is just as likely (and very probable in this case) that the theft was committed by a member of their staff, in which case liability is not in question.
Essentially, I want to know if anybody knows if it's worth my while pursuing this. As it stands they have again refused me a penny and the theft cost me something in the region of £2,000. The next stage would be hiring a solicitor, but I don't want to get involved in that if it's going to be a waste of time or money.
Please don't write back along the lines of "...if there is a notice in the changing room saying 'we don't accept liability for loss etc' you're out of luck" as the OFT has already ruled that such signs are an unfair term and anyone with an ounce of common sense should realise that such signs cannot be used as an excuse for negligent practice (apart from RSA though, apparently).
Thanks in advance and apologies for length of post. It could have been much longer if I'd listed all the reasons I think LA Fitness have been negligible in this case.....
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I will say though that a few years ago when my husband's credit card was stolen, along with a note of the PIN (yes, I know), Legal & General refused initially to pay out on our contents insurance. I wrote to the top man and after some of the usual to-ing and fro-ing, they paid up. Don't give up and go to the top would be my advice. I bet they settle in the end if you make enough of a nuisance of yourself.
HowardKennitby/Hopkirk - The locker was secured by a 4 number, combination padlock that was supplied by the gym (first point of their responsibility). There were two other lockers hit at the same time, both of which were locked with the issued padlock. There were three lockers broken into the previous week, all of which were again locked with the padlock supplied by the gym. (there were also further break ins the following week).
Considering that my belongings were secured in a locker on LA Fitness's private property, with a (sub-standard) lock supplied by them, do they not have to assume some responsibility for my possessions? Also the lockers which are secured with a removable padlock are clearly going to be less secure than ones with an internal, key operated lock.
The gym did not inform its members of the thefts the week before or suggest that they be extra vigilant as thefts were occurring. They did not warn members that the supplied padlock was susceptible (it has since been withdrawn). They did not make me aware that there are 'security' lockers in the reception area nor that they actually sell 'high security' padlocks on reception.
There is a side issue here too in that the club/RSA are now blatantly lying about a)the fact that the three padlocks broken off on that day were all dumped in an extra locker, as the duty manager had told me immediately after the incident. RSA are now saying there was no sign of them, and b)they are denying that their staff were selling membership packs under the counter for cash. This was something that was brought to my attention by someone who was offered such a deal and I raised it with the manager as an indication of the dubious character of their staff. She admitted to knowing about it and that the member of staff responsible had been sacked. RSA are now saying that they are disputing that it ever happened, despite me offering them an independent eye witness!
It has been dragging on for so long, and I know this happens a lot in gyms but it makes me mad that because it happens so much, something should be done about it. The gyms don't give a toss and now they and/or the insurance company are blatantly lying about events.
Suechu - I am not claiming on my home contents insurance for this because I don't think I should have to lose my no claims bonus/swallow the inevitable premium increase for something that was not my fault.
Considering that my belongings were secured in a locker on LA Fitness's private property, with a (sub-standard) lock supplied by them, do they not have to assume some responsibility for my possessions? Also the lockers which are secured with a removable padlock are clearly going to be less secure than ones with an internal, key operated lock.
The gym did not inform its members of the thefts the week before or suggest that they be extra vigilant as thefts were occurring. They did not warn members that the supplied padlock was susceptible (it has since been withdrawn). They did not make me aware that there are 'security' lockers in the reception area nor that they actually sell 'high security' padlocks on reception.
There is a side issue here too in that the club/RSA are now blatantly lying about a)the fact that the three padlocks broken off on that day were all dumped in an extra locker, as the duty manager had told me immediately after the incident. RSA are now saying there was no sign of them, and b)they are denying that their staff were selling membership packs under the counter for cash. This was something that was brought to my attention by someone who was offered such a deal and I raised it with the manager as an indication of the dubious character of their staff. She admitted to knowing about it and that the member of staff responsible had been sacked. RSA are now saying that they are disputing that it ever happened, despite me offering them an independent eye witness!
It has been dragging on for so long, and I know this happens a lot in gyms but it makes me mad that because it happens so much, something should be done about it. The gyms don't give a toss and now they and/or the insurance company are blatantly lying about events.
Suechu - I am not claiming on my home contents insurance for this because I don't think I should have to lose my no claims bonus/swallow the inevitable premium increase for something that was not my fault.
Wasn't really suggesting you should, GM, more that you should keep pummelling the top bods at the gym and their insurance company with recorded delivery letters, possibly copied to Watchdog(?). Emphasising your extreme disappointment at their reaction, what good firms you had previously thought they were, and how you will now be spreading the word unless they accept responsibility. It's not like they can't afford to recompense you, they just hope you'll give up the fight. Don't do it.
Thanks all for your help so far!
Suechu - I have been! I went to the top of LA Fitness and they said that they would not entertain any more correspondence from me and that everything had to go through RSA. I have cc'd Watchdog and the local Trading Standards in my emails to RSA and made it quite clear that I had done.
Perhaps I'll print copies of everything so far, knock out a covering letter and send the whole lot to a few big wigs at RSA (recorded delivery, of course). Should be a nice big package for them.
I was also considering running it by one of these internet lawyer sites that say they will give you a legal opinion for around£30, but I don't want to register for a site, post my query and find out I owe £xxx because someone has taken on my case or something!!
Suechu - I have been! I went to the top of LA Fitness and they said that they would not entertain any more correspondence from me and that everything had to go through RSA. I have cc'd Watchdog and the local Trading Standards in my emails to RSA and made it quite clear that I had done.
Perhaps I'll print copies of everything so far, knock out a covering letter and send the whole lot to a few big wigs at RSA (recorded delivery, of course). Should be a nice big package for them.
I was also considering running it by one of these internet lawyer sites that say they will give you a legal opinion for around£30, but I don't want to register for a site, post my query and find out I owe £xxx because someone has taken on my case or something!!
Hi, first write to the Managing director direct by recorded delivery , do not bother with the lower level staff . Tell them you are going to make an official complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman unless you get a satisfactory outcome
Here is the link to the FS Ombudsman
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/
Also tell them you are have the newspapers intrested in the story
On second thought just go straight to the FSA and let them sort it out.
Here is the link to the FS Ombudsman
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/
Also tell them you are have the newspapers intrested in the story
On second thought just go straight to the FSA and let them sort it out.
All insurers have to have an official complaints procedure. Write in the first instance to:
Roger Binks,
RSA,
Dean Clough,
Bowling Mill,
Halifax,
West Yorkshire,
HX3 5WA.
They have to acknowledge your complaint within 5 working days and then keep you informed regulary about progress.
Only after you have exhausted their complaints process do you have to right to go to the Financial Ombudsman Service, using Eddie's link.
Roger Binks,
RSA,
Dean Clough,
Bowling Mill,
Halifax,
West Yorkshire,
HX3 5WA.
They have to acknowledge your complaint within 5 working days and then keep you informed regulary about progress.
Only after you have exhausted their complaints process do you have to right to go to the Financial Ombudsman Service, using Eddie's link.
Did you have insurance cover for personal possessions outside the house? If so , you could claim on that and let them decide whether to seek to recover from the gym.
It's too late in your case sadly but some good will have come from this if it warns others not to store anything like £2000 worth of stuff in a gym locker.
It's too late in your case sadly but some good will have come from this if it warns others not to store anything like £2000 worth of stuff in a gym locker.
The Chairman of RSA is John Napier
Write direct to him and address the envelope 'For the Personal Attention of John Napier''
Contact details here , scroll down to best answer
http://uk.answers.yah...20070212093651AARMlCx
The head office is in London not Halifax
If you look on the link people have got a result by going direct to the main man , tell him he has 10 days before you go to the FSA Ombudsman.
Write direct to him and address the envelope 'For the Personal Attention of John Napier''
Contact details here , scroll down to best answer
http://uk.answers.yah...20070212093651AARMlCx
The head office is in London not Halifax
If you look on the link people have got a result by going direct to the main man , tell him he has 10 days before you go to the FSA Ombudsman.
Some great advice here, thanks guys. Can I choose multiple best answers?!
In response, were the police were called? Yes. Were they interested or did they do much about it? Unlikely. There was certainly no follow up from them and they didn't contact me as they said they would. Not surprised really. A few days later a bunch of scrotes started setting fire to and looting shops in London so u think their attention was elsewhere!
I didn't have £2k of stuff in my locker, perhaps only £500 (which included my iPhone and a Miu Miu wallet) but it the other costs involved after having my wallet and keys taken amounted to around £1500.
As far as HOW the padlock was opened, Joko, j can't say. Whether they were forced or cut, or just smashed I don't know. They were brand new, so not a previous user. I was told my lock was going to be handed to the police as evidence and then RSA told me that it was not recovered. But the fact that these scumbags hit at least six of these locks in two consecutive weeks suggests that someone found a way to open them easily.
And that LA Fitness have now withdrawn those locks shows that they are admitting that they're substandard.
I like the idea of writing to this Napier fellow and threatening him with the ombudsman. I think at least one letter each week might get his attention.
In response, were the police were called? Yes. Were they interested or did they do much about it? Unlikely. There was certainly no follow up from them and they didn't contact me as they said they would. Not surprised really. A few days later a bunch of scrotes started setting fire to and looting shops in London so u think their attention was elsewhere!
I didn't have £2k of stuff in my locker, perhaps only £500 (which included my iPhone and a Miu Miu wallet) but it the other costs involved after having my wallet and keys taken amounted to around £1500.
As far as HOW the padlock was opened, Joko, j can't say. Whether they were forced or cut, or just smashed I don't know. They were brand new, so not a previous user. I was told my lock was going to be handed to the police as evidence and then RSA told me that it was not recovered. But the fact that these scumbags hit at least six of these locks in two consecutive weeks suggests that someone found a way to open them easily.
And that LA Fitness have now withdrawn those locks shows that they are admitting that they're substandard.
I like the idea of writing to this Napier fellow and threatening him with the ombudsman. I think at least one letter each week might get his attention.
Hi Goonermatt, what a coincidence! I use to train at LA Fitness years ago and one of the guys told me why he was not in his SLK. When he went up to train, the theft eyeballed this and forced his locker, took his keys and exited the gym carpark in his car. They now think it was an outsider on a guest membership who took notes on who drives the better cars and they become the fence.
The gym was not held liable in this case because they followed correct procedure and the victim's case was too weak to benefit the cost of taking anyone to court. there is of course the possibility insurance will pay out but in the end it is a speculative decision.
Also on another point, thank you for your reply to my question regarding foldable seats in a saloon. I have given up on the hope they do fold. Even a 911 has foldable rear seats. Its annoying because I didn't even think it would ever be an issue. An hatchback and a saloon are similar enough to warrant foldables in the saloon and many of the modern ones do, look at Mondeos, Vectras, 3 Series, A4 but maybe some of the premium execs are option only's. How much do you think the option costs in the C class?
The gym was not held liable in this case because they followed correct procedure and the victim's case was too weak to benefit the cost of taking anyone to court. there is of course the possibility insurance will pay out but in the end it is a speculative decision.
Also on another point, thank you for your reply to my question regarding foldable seats in a saloon. I have given up on the hope they do fold. Even a 911 has foldable rear seats. Its annoying because I didn't even think it would ever be an issue. An hatchback and a saloon are similar enough to warrant foldables in the saloon and many of the modern ones do, look at Mondeos, Vectras, 3 Series, A4 but maybe some of the premium execs are option only's. How much do you think the option costs in the C class?
I have just discovered my locker at Virgin Active Cricklewood club (which I pay for as a place to leave items between visits) has been broken into and emptied. Funny thing is no damage to the locker. The club say they haven't mistakenly cleared my locker when doing their regular clearance of lockers being used for long term storage. They say it is nothing to do with them. I am a victim along with many other people in the club.
This feels against natural justice. I feel they have a responsibility here somewhere but cannot pin it down. Have you had any further clarificationb about what may be legally actionable as I would like to do something?!
This feels against natural justice. I feel they have a responsibility here somewhere but cannot pin it down. Have you had any further clarificationb about what may be legally actionable as I would like to do something?!
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