Jokes6 mins ago
Perverting The Course Of Justice
Last year I was prosecuted for fraud. The only evidence against me was the word of two other people. The case went to trial at my request in Crown Court. The prosecution presented its case and then called the two prosecution witnesses who contradicted each other, the statements they had made to the police and could not explain away evidence that supported the defence when questioned by the defence barrister. The prosecution dropped the case without any further prosecution witnesses being called which, were the investigating officer and an individual who could only confirm facts that were not disputed and would have supported the defence, or any defence witnesses. The motive for the allegations was to attempt to avoid a debt owed to me. I have since successfully pursued the two prosecution witnesses through the County Court and recovered a sum that was 10 times the value of the alleged fraud. The fact is though that they are guilty of 'perverting the course of justice'. Why they haven't been prosecuted, I don't know. The judge waived aside my the defence barristers suggestion that they should be prosecuted and neither the police of CPS have done anything about it. Which, is the best way to try and get them prosecuted? Can I make a complaint to the Police or should I write to the CPS with my evidence?
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To get a conviction for perverting the course of justice you need absolute PROOF that the perpetrator deliberately set out to pervert a criminal trial. You do not have anything near that. All you have is 2 people whose evidence was contradictory and not believed by a court. You an individual can NOT prosecute or ask the CPS to prosecute anyone. You got a claim upheld in a civil ( county) court where the standard of proof is far lower than in a criminal court. Sorry but just forget the idea.
Eddie is right. There really is nothing you can or should do. If you can't take solace from the fact that the case was dropped and you have successfully pursued County Court Judgements you risk driving yourself mad with bitterness and anger.
Not a particularly legal answer but really it is the only way to go. Put it behind you and look forward.
Not a particularly legal answer but really it is the only way to go. Put it behind you and look forward.
you cant do anything - you are screwed
You are in the same position as anyone else acquitted after five minutes and that is - "this should never have happened to me !"
You can ry writing to Alison Saunders the DPP and telll her what a +r*p job she is doing and all that will happen is that an over-promoted Mandarin will reply and tell you the system is meant to work like this.
You are at the wrong end of a well known old rule - a case shall not beget a case.
In other words you cant litigate about litigation .... rule in Rondel v Worsley 1971 - I know it has been over ruled but even so, the whole idea is a non starter
You are in the same position as anyone else acquitted after five minutes and that is - "this should never have happened to me !"
You can ry writing to Alison Saunders the DPP and telll her what a +r*p job she is doing and all that will happen is that an over-promoted Mandarin will reply and tell you the system is meant to work like this.
You are at the wrong end of a well known old rule - a case shall not beget a case.
In other words you cant litigate about litigation .... rule in Rondel v Worsley 1971 - I know it has been over ruled but even so, the whole idea is a non starter
Thank you for your replies. However, please don't assume that I don't have any evidence. There is plenty of irrefutable in black and white evidence. Eddie, I suggest you don't answer questions on subjects you have no expertise in. An individual CAN bring a private prosecution and of course I can ask the CPS to bring a prosecution, they might refuse but I can ask. I'm not asking for advice on whether or not I should try and get them prosecuted, just on the best avenue to try first. So, if anyone has any expertise in this area rather than just an opinion, I would appreciate their input.
Criminal cases are littered with witnesses who have not told "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". If every one of them was hauled up to face a charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice there would be little space to deal with much else.
The fact is the evidence of these witnesses has been discredited and the CPS, probably influenced by the remarks of the judge, has decided not to launch a prosecution based on that alone. If you want the CPS to consider further evidence (apart from their dodgy court testimony) you will have to do so via the police. My own view from the very limited information that you have given is that the CPS would be unlikely to act.
You are correct in that you do have the option to launch a private prosecution (although the DPP has the power to veto such an action if it is thought not to be in the public interest). Unless you conduct it yourself (not recommended) this would be expensive. You will be liable for all of the prosecution costs which will not be recoverable even if the verdict is in your favour. If the case goes against you the costs of the defence will also land on your doormat.
So the summary answers to your questions are approach the police with your additional evidence. If the CPS refuse to take on the case then you must launch a private prosecution. If you go down this avenue be prepared (a) to have the matter vetoed by the DPP and (b) for a hefty bill win or lose.
The fact is the evidence of these witnesses has been discredited and the CPS, probably influenced by the remarks of the judge, has decided not to launch a prosecution based on that alone. If you want the CPS to consider further evidence (apart from their dodgy court testimony) you will have to do so via the police. My own view from the very limited information that you have given is that the CPS would be unlikely to act.
You are correct in that you do have the option to launch a private prosecution (although the DPP has the power to veto such an action if it is thought not to be in the public interest). Unless you conduct it yourself (not recommended) this would be expensive. You will be liable for all of the prosecution costs which will not be recoverable even if the verdict is in your favour. If the case goes against you the costs of the defence will also land on your doormat.
So the summary answers to your questions are approach the police with your additional evidence. If the CPS refuse to take on the case then you must launch a private prosecution. If you go down this avenue be prepared (a) to have the matter vetoed by the DPP and (b) for a hefty bill win or lose.
if you do want to launch a private prosecution then get in touch with someone like this and let them look at the evidence , they will give an opinion as to the merits of the case
http://
But you need to have a LOT of money , around £50,000 just to prepare a case, that you can afford to lose.
http://
But you need to have a LOT of money , around £50,000 just to prepare a case, that you can afford to lose.
New Judge, can you tell me on what knowledge and experience you are relying on when saying that the CPS won't accept a direct approach? Given that I have conducted extensive research on the Private Prosecution option and I know that if it failed I would not personally be liable for the defence costs and would probably still be able to recover my own costs from central funds. I also know that defendants who plead not guilty are routinely subsequently prosecuted for ptcoj upon conviction. There is also no such offence of 'attempting' to ptcoj. The course of justice is perverted the moment a false statement is made whether acted upon or not. I'm looking for an answer from someone who knows the answer to my question and isn't just guessing.
For what it is worth, I agree with NJ who has answered your question. NJ does not need to justify to you the quality of their answer or provide you with a CV. Bear in mind also the disclaimer above.
oh and they are not guilty of anything unless they a) plead guilty b) are found guilty.
Experienced legal professionals such as "New Judge" (clue in the name there) give their time freely on this site. If you already know best, I suggest you go down the route you have already researched extensively. Failing that, do something radical and pay for some advice.
(PS and even if you pay for it, you are only ever likely to get an opinion based on experience).
oh and they are not guilty of anything unless they a) plead guilty b) are found guilty.
Experienced legal professionals such as "New Judge" (clue in the name there) give their time freely on this site. If you already know best, I suggest you go down the route you have already researched extensively. Failing that, do something radical and pay for some advice.
(PS and even if you pay for it, you are only ever likely to get an opinion based on experience).
Yes as both Barmaid and Eddie suggest, I am not going to justify or support my replies with evidence or provenance. I'm certainly not going to start an argument over it. If you ask questions on a site such as this you can either accept what’s written or do the other thing. You will not find too many people prepared to justify their advice. It is, after all, just that – freely given advice. If you want a cast iron opinion upon which you can rely and for which you can claim recourse if it is wrong you may find you have to pay for it.
I did not suggest that there are no cases of witnesses being prosecuted for dodgy evidence, just that it is not as straightforward as you seem to believe. But you clearly know far more about this particular topic than anybody here so I don’t know why you bothered to pose the question. You’re quite confident that you can instigate a private prosecution and not be liable for any costs should it fail. I’m sure there are countless instances of frivolous prosecutions being launched and the costs met from “central funds”. It may not have occurred to you that the very reason why the CPS has declined to take further action may be because they see little chance of a conviction.
Still, despite all that, I wish you well. But if it were me I would simply go home, count the tenfold profit I had made via the County Court and get on with things.
I did not suggest that there are no cases of witnesses being prosecuted for dodgy evidence, just that it is not as straightforward as you seem to believe. But you clearly know far more about this particular topic than anybody here so I don’t know why you bothered to pose the question. You’re quite confident that you can instigate a private prosecution and not be liable for any costs should it fail. I’m sure there are countless instances of frivolous prosecutions being launched and the costs met from “central funds”. It may not have occurred to you that the very reason why the CPS has declined to take further action may be because they see little chance of a conviction.
Still, despite all that, I wish you well. But if it were me I would simply go home, count the tenfold profit I had made via the County Court and get on with things.
For those amateurs: no not Barmaid or NJ
the info on private prosecutions is here:
http://
but of course as the article makes clear - MissLilly is NOT really about a private prosecution but arm twisting the CPS into prosecuting when they obviously dont want to. The trial judge showing no interest I think is significant.
Good Luck is all I can say
excluding the professionals ( BM NJ et alii )I cant state that none of us have brought private prosecutions as we all have something better to do with £50k.
Nailit aka NotNotNut may have - but he ended up in prison whilst we watched fascinated and aghast. His tale to Calvary may have coloured our views
the info on private prosecutions is here:
http://
but of course as the article makes clear - MissLilly is NOT really about a private prosecution but arm twisting the CPS into prosecuting when they obviously dont want to. The trial judge showing no interest I think is significant.
Good Luck is all I can say
excluding the professionals ( BM NJ et alii )I cant state that none of us have brought private prosecutions as we all have something better to do with £50k.
Nailit aka NotNotNut may have - but he ended up in prison whilst we watched fascinated and aghast. His tale to Calvary may have coloured our views
The CPS will only take on a case where they think there is a realistic chance of winning , a 'realistic chance ' is around 80% they don't do 50/50 .
Misslily, from your post at 18.34 I assume you think that because you are certain the 2 people are guilty that is enough for a court, but you are very much mistaken .
This is would be a criminal case with a prison sentence if found guilty. There has to be absolute proof that will convince a jury, 99% sure is NOT enough!
Misslily, from your post at 18.34 I assume you think that because you are certain the 2 people are guilty that is enough for a court, but you are very much mistaken .
This is would be a criminal case with a prison sentence if found guilty. There has to be absolute proof that will convince a jury, 99% sure is NOT enough!
-- answer removed --
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