Olivers' Army's Been Got At.....

[10ClarionSt]

........by the "woke" brigade. I heard it on the "Gold" radio station this morning. They've removed the part where he sings "only takes one itchy trigger, one more widow one less white nig ger"

Quite some time ago on here I said that somebody would do that. And they have! Some people should just stay in bed - permanent! Have a listen to the full version, but somebody still doesn 't like the word nig ger. hey ho!

[ynnafymmi]

Isnt Mr Costello a bit of a racist anyway?Didnt he once have a racist rant at Ray Charles?Didnt he have a drunken fight with Bonnie Bramlett regarding his racist views?Seems Mr McManus has a bit of history regarding racism.

[royfromaus]

Someone trying for MOTD.

[ynnafymmi]

Perhaps it was an Englishman who hates English nationalism,but loves Scottish nationalism...just guessing...

[royfromaus]

There's currently a bit of a battle to show who is the top mod at the moment.

[10ClarionSt]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I don't think the song should be censored. It's just a record. But there will always be people taking offence at something. I remember in Nov 2001, we attended the grand concert of The National Festival of Music for Youth at the RAH. The finale was Land Of Hope And Glory, but because of the recent 9/11 terror attack, the words were changed completely to reflect peace and friendliness rather than the jingoism that they said is portrayed by the song. I sang the original words. Not like me is it? :o)

[pixie374]

You seem to be assuming people are offended. But, maybe, they have just outgrown it.

[10ClarionSt]

Well, these days pixie I think many people feel they have a right to be offended about anything.

[Ellipsis]

My point is that the N word on a mainstream station at 10 am on a Sunday morning is about as [un]acceptable as the F word on a mainstream station at 10 am on a Sunday morning. And both words are also blocked by the AB filters. But your song with the N word in it was allowed to stay, 10CS, whereas my song with the F word in it was removed. Inconsistent at best ...

[pixie374]

They do, clarion, as ever.

[tomus42]

Surely this has been the case for years - ie that word being removed from the song?

If you're going to sensor the the word then you have to do it consistently. You can't really spend too much time pondering over whether the writer was being ironic or whether he is or isn't racist or whatever.

It doesn't bother me because I have the album with the original version. I know the lyrics and I think it's a great song.

[andy-hughes]

pixie - // It didn't offend me- but it isn't only about mature adults who are used to lyrics already. It's real entitlement to suggest that something should stay the same forever, because we are used to it.
There are many (mostly, for me now!) younger people and generations, who have moved on from this old-fashioned stuff, and no longer need or appreciate it. When words or concepts become obsolete, it's obviously going to happen within "someone's" lifetime. It isn't all about us. //

My position is less about the fact that the lyric should remain because we are used to it, than that it should not be removed because another generation may be offended by it.

Education is not about censoring something and trying to pretend it didn't happen, it's about accepting that some things are of their time, they were acceptable then, they are less acceptable now.

You cannot educate anyone about anything if it's simply no longer there for them to see and hear, and thereby understand.

Surely it's better for people to hear a song like Oliver's Army in its original form, complete with the currently unsuitable language, and if anyone asks about it, or is upset, then simply point out that this was a word being used to make a valid point about the culture and attitudes of the time.

If we carry on with this creeping habit of removing anything that we think MAY offend someone, where do we stop?

Do we stop showing WW2 films because we think war is wrong?

It clearly is, but it is also a large part of our history and heritage, and trying to blank it out serves no-one especially coming gnereations who really do need to see where we came from, and how we got to where we are now, and an idea of where we might be going.

You cannot do that effectively with selective censorship that removes all historical and cultural reference points that show how society has arrived where it is when the generation in question starts to ask questions about how it got here.

[Mamyalynne]

Ellipsis @ 20.44, I can see your confusion about the removal.

I wonder if it's more to do with what words are on the screen rather than buried in the lyrics?

[royfromaus]

Well, they're starting to disappear now.

[Ellipsis]

andy-hughes, I will just echo back what you posted to me the other day upon removing another one of my posts:

> Ellipsis - // I see the mods are not Kenny Everett fans. That phrase was prime time BBC! //
> So were The Black And White Minstrels.
> Times change ...

Indeed, times do change ...

[pixie374]

They do. Andy, normalising the abnormal, isn't "educational". War films might be, if they are factual, but obsolete (before my memory) language, can probably be ditched. It doesn't matter to us, but future generations will find it unnecessary and irrelevant.

[THECORBYLOON]

ELLIPSIS, you clearly weren't aware that the f-word was spelt out in full in the image showing in your post.

[Zacs-Master]

Isn’t it great when a bunch of old white people get together to discuss what offends black people. I just love it.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // andy-hughes, I will just echo back what you posted to me the other day upon removing another one of my posts: //

Yet again you are assuming my action in removing a post.

I am neither confirming or denying, as you would reasonably expect, but you have no evidence either way, except your supposition, which is just that - your thought - and that is not evidence.