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Religion and Spirituality
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Dear all - This is my last post on Religion & Spirituality. I've had enough here, not because I argue with people - that I enjoy. But because of the lack of any positivity on this site. I think some of you underestimate the power that faith has on people and your efforts, if at all any, to understand it are pretty futile. Faith goes beyond the words of a book - be it the Koran, Bible or other. Those holy texts are simply written in a time that was different and Man has used this material since then for his own power over people, whether that relates to sex, contraception, marriage, prejudice, war etc. But the essential element of a belief in God is that of faith - faith beyond the written word.
I can only suggest one parallel to you from my own experience and you may or maynot or to some degree be able to relate to it - I have children. My children are the greatest love of my life. (Although my sister and best friend are a very close second!) My children can give me the greatest pleasure and the greatest pain I will probably ever experience. My outer love for them varies with life - I am upset with them, angry (rarely but only when hurt) frustrated at times but I also laugh with and at them. However my inner love for them knows no boundaries - there is no night or day, no anger, resentment or frustration. Words are inadequate to express the inner feelings that I have for my children. When they physically left my womb, they left some of their presence and that presence is with me at all times even when they are physically not. There is no rationality to what I would do for my children out of my love for them, I hope life never test me on that.
My belief in God is on par to my love for my children. He is not physically present, in essence he inhabits my being. His energy breathes through me and his love transcends my physical constraits.
cont......
I can only suggest one parallel to you from my own experience and you may or maynot or to some degree be able to relate to it - I have children. My children are the greatest love of my life. (Although my sister and best friend are a very close second!) My children can give me the greatest pleasure and the greatest pain I will probably ever experience. My outer love for them varies with life - I am upset with them, angry (rarely but only when hurt) frustrated at times but I also laugh with and at them. However my inner love for them knows no boundaries - there is no night or day, no anger, resentment or frustration. Words are inadequate to express the inner feelings that I have for my children. When they physically left my womb, they left some of their presence and that presence is with me at all times even when they are physically not. There is no rationality to what I would do for my children out of my love for them, I hope life never test me on that.
My belief in God is on par to my love for my children. He is not physically present, in essence he inhabits my being. His energy breathes through me and his love transcends my physical constraits.
cont......
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Sorry to be arsey, but I can actually prove my kids exist to any reasonable standard of proof demanded. I imagine you're the same, unless your kids are fictional. I - we all - get that religious people are convinced that they're right, but it's not really analogous to how someone feels about their own kids, is it?
I agree, Seadragon. A lot of atheists rather seem not to 'get' religion, as if anything that can't be replicated in laboratory conditions is somehow meaningless. They also seem to fear the power of religion (frequently accusing it of being behind wars, for instance), though all the Christians I've known (and Muslims too, for that matter) have been kind and loving people.
As I would not ever watch my children being derided, I am not going to partake in a debate where belief in God is taunted and mocked. There is literally not an ounce of positivity in all that negativity about God. Criticism I can take but every debate has two sides and it is only Jno and Ankou - commendable as they are, even when they may not hold a view, they will still argue for other sides or put forward other points. This they do extremely well and they are both atheists or at least I know Ankou is.
My intention is not to annoy anyone but I've learn an extremely important lesson from R & S and that ironically is one of Religious Tolerance. I did have some prejudices before coming here - it is due to Keyplus that I came onto this site but in time I learnt to differentiate the individual from their religion and how to be more tolerant of different religious faiths than ever before. You see the lessons are there to be learnt - God works in mysterious ways and sometimes we are not always grateful for the teaching, but the lesson means well.
I wrote this post because I didn't want anyone to have the impression that just because I am no longer a voice on R & S that in some way my belief in God has been eroded. On the contrary as I suggested above it has actually become stronger and more pronounced. I can only thank you for that and to say that if any comments are left I will read them but I am not replying to any. And finally, I can without wincing this time send all you people my love and wishes for the best life you could possibly have. x
My intention is not to annoy anyone but I've learn an extremely important lesson from R & S and that ironically is one of Religious Tolerance. I did have some prejudices before coming here - it is due to Keyplus that I came onto this site but in time I learnt to differentiate the individual from their religion and how to be more tolerant of different religious faiths than ever before. You see the lessons are there to be learnt - God works in mysterious ways and sometimes we are not always grateful for the teaching, but the lesson means well.
I wrote this post because I didn't want anyone to have the impression that just because I am no longer a voice on R & S that in some way my belief in God has been eroded. On the contrary as I suggested above it has actually become stronger and more pronounced. I can only thank you for that and to say that if any comments are left I will read them but I am not replying to any. And finally, I can without wincing this time send all you people my love and wishes for the best life you could possibly have. x
The problem is that it's all religion that's negative, it creates hatred and intollerence everywhere. I don't care which brand of fairytale you subscribe to, they're all the same. As someone wiser than me once said: " Good people do good things and bad people do bad things, it takes religion to make good people do bad things" - Sums the whole show up nicely. You are not commig on here any more because of intolerance, you cannot comprehend why everyone doesn't accept the brain washing you clearly have. In the words of Bruce allmightey, if you do exists god then Smite me you smiter! ..........
.......Still here!
.......Still here!
-- answer removed --
"" A lot of atheists rather seem not to 'get' religion "
It's not so much that we don't get it, we just feel that if you have a belief system that's based on nothing more than your own feeling (plus a lot of brainwashing when you were a kid), then what you decide to believe in, be it the god of the Christians, the gods of the ancient Greeks, or the spaghetti monster, is pretty much irrelevant.
It's not so much that we don't get it, we just feel that if you have a belief system that's based on nothing more than your own feeling (plus a lot of brainwashing when you were a kid), then what you decide to believe in, be it the god of the Christians, the gods of the ancient Greeks, or the spaghetti monster, is pretty much irrelevant.
society, from what i have seen i dont think its really that clear cut on r+s. the general state of affairs here is that you have 'we are the clever people, you are the stupid people' with atheism / religion rspectively which continues on and on round and round for all of eternity. there is no real calm debate as such since there ae only 1 or 2 religionists who can be bothered to put up with the tirade of, you are stupid and i have read and studied 100 books over a period of 50 years that tell me so. seadragon isn't the 1st religionist to disappear i suspect.
anyway, seadragon, i am sorry to see you go. maybe i'll catch you on the other side? take care my friend.
anyway, seadragon, i am sorry to see you go. maybe i'll catch you on the other side? take care my friend.
rojash, that seems fair enough: yes, religion should be pretty much irrelevant to the average atheist. And yet atheists keep queuing up here to rubbish it. They seem much more anxious about religion than believers are about atheism. I don't know why this is. But Seadragon is acting quite sensibly in withdrawing from 'debates' that aren't debates at all.
Because, jno, despite admitting that they're unable to prove their religion has any validity, it continues to affect all of our lives.
I sincerely don't care what people believe in their own homes (I do, obviously think they're wrong, but whatever), but when it affects things like gay rights, condoms in Africa, teaching of pseudoscience in schools, destroying community cohesion through faith schools, having religiously inspired wars that actively discriminate on the basis of gender, radicalisation leading to terrorism, bombing of abortion clinics etc etc, then it is entirely reasonable that it gets attacked.
The irony is that a secular state protects the right to believe what one chooses far better than any religiously-affiliated one can ever do.
I sincerely don't care what people believe in their own homes (I do, obviously think they're wrong, but whatever), but when it affects things like gay rights, condoms in Africa, teaching of pseudoscience in schools, destroying community cohesion through faith schools, having religiously inspired wars that actively discriminate on the basis of gender, radicalisation leading to terrorism, bombing of abortion clinics etc etc, then it is entirely reasonable that it gets attacked.
The irony is that a secular state protects the right to believe what one chooses far better than any religiously-affiliated one can ever do.
Atheists have realised that religion is not irrelevant. Religions is nothing more than deeply prejudiced ultra-conservatism. "We must believe this because our ancestors have believed the same thing for a thousand years."
The high believers have an interest in perpetuating the faith because otherwise their lives would have been irrelevant. They also contol the ascendency in the church and wound never appoint any but the ultra-conservatives. Yet these people presume to dicate our morality.
No offence to the people with the belief but the philosophy underlying the Abrahamic faiths is disgusting. There is no other word for it. Religion has had a stranglehold on the planet since the dawn of time. We need to break out of this before the theists create their cherished Armageddon. Those of us not posessessed by Abraham's spell have every right to speak out. If it sounds negative to the belivers it is because it exposes the rotten core of religion that underpins traditional values.
Chauvanism, retribution and hatred are foundation beliefs of theist philosophy. We are capable of much better.
The high believers have an interest in perpetuating the faith because otherwise their lives would have been irrelevant. They also contol the ascendency in the church and wound never appoint any but the ultra-conservatives. Yet these people presume to dicate our morality.
No offence to the people with the belief but the philosophy underlying the Abrahamic faiths is disgusting. There is no other word for it. Religion has had a stranglehold on the planet since the dawn of time. We need to break out of this before the theists create their cherished Armageddon. Those of us not posessessed by Abraham's spell have every right to speak out. If it sounds negative to the belivers it is because it exposes the rotten core of religion that underpins traditional values.
Chauvanism, retribution and hatred are foundation beliefs of theist philosophy. We are capable of much better.
Thanks guys, I'm not totally withdrawing from AB (much to the dismay of some!) just this site. I'm not discussing Religion or God again. The only ones I haven't learnt much tolerance for are Athetists (not all, I add) their propoganda is as worse as the Religionists.
Waldo, you just didn't get it. I don't tell my kids everyday that I love them but the feeling of love is always there. I should really make a more conscious effort to tell them. And fictional? Please! I took the day of work yesterday to shop for my youngest daughters birthday presents her birthday being in one and a half weeks then I parked at her school, walked down, took my seat and watched the play but oh no - my daughter is fictional, what have I been thinking all day? And no, not all religious and non-religious people are right. And not asking for 100% positive answers. In fact I don't seek answers to my belief. People wanted to understand, I try to explain, they don't take anything on board not even slightly trying to understand only criticism and questions and criticism and questions - I might as well watch the leaves swirling around each other in the breeze. At least I feel contented.
Thanks in particular to Jno and Ankou - you guys are nice and keep up the good work here. Definitely last post. Sorry. I shall go and cause havoc elsewhere that's what I like about Answerbank.
Waldo, you just didn't get it. I don't tell my kids everyday that I love them but the feeling of love is always there. I should really make a more conscious effort to tell them. And fictional? Please! I took the day of work yesterday to shop for my youngest daughters birthday presents her birthday being in one and a half weeks then I parked at her school, walked down, took my seat and watched the play but oh no - my daughter is fictional, what have I been thinking all day? And no, not all religious and non-religious people are right. And not asking for 100% positive answers. In fact I don't seek answers to my belief. People wanted to understand, I try to explain, they don't take anything on board not even slightly trying to understand only criticism and questions and criticism and questions - I might as well watch the leaves swirling around each other in the breeze. At least I feel contented.
Thanks in particular to Jno and Ankou - you guys are nice and keep up the good work here. Definitely last post. Sorry. I shall go and cause havoc elsewhere that's what I like about Answerbank.
