ChatterBank5 mins ago
Why Are Labour And The Lib/dems Against A Eu Referendum?
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Apparently Labour and the Lib/Dems don't consider the British public worthy enough to voice their opinion on the EU.
/// Neither Labour nor the Lib Dems support the EU Referendum Bill, arguing that speculation over EU membership will damage inward investment and the economy as a whole over the next few years. ///
Is this true democracy, when an unelected body such as the Lords are allowed to delay a bill passing through parliament?
Apparently Labour and the Lib/Dems don't consider the British public worthy enough to voice their opinion on the EU.
/// Neither Labour nor the Lib Dems support the EU Referendum Bill, arguing that speculation over EU membership will damage inward investment and the economy as a whole over the next few years. ///
Is this true democracy, when an unelected body such as the Lords are allowed to delay a bill passing through parliament?
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“The Public voted once-how many times must they vote until you get the result you want?”
Well, in 1975 the electorate were asked if they wanted to continue the UK’s membership of what was then the European Economic Community. This was a far different beast to today’s EU and the profound constitutional changes which subsequent treaties have introduced deserve to be put to the voters.
The scaremongers that suggest the UK will suffer badly from EU withdrawal examine only one side of the coin. The EU is becoming increasingly moribund and over regulated and the world has changed. Threats from big business leaders to move their operations are just that - threats. The head of Ford UK recently announced such a threat. This was from a country who recently closed its operations in Southampton and upped sticks to Turkey - courtesy of EU cash. Very beneficial to the UK.
I’ve argued this many times before on AB and cannot be bothered to go through all the facts and numbers again. But trade and investment with the UK will continue in the event of our withdrawal. We buy far more from Europe than we sell. France and Germany will still sell their Peugeots and BMWs here courtesy of individual trade agreements which would be easily and quickly established.
However, back to the question. Politicians of all parties are opposed to all referendums because it robs them of their raison d’etre. They seem to forget that they are there to represent people and facilitate their wishes, not to indulge in their personal foibles. A constitutional matter such as the considerable erosion of sovereignty that accompanies an ever increasingly federal EU is far too important to be left to them. And the biggest reason of all why they don’t want to see this particular referendum held is that they are fearful of the result. If they believed they would get resounding support for our continued membership it would be held tomorrow.
Well, in 1975 the electorate were asked if they wanted to continue the UK’s membership of what was then the European Economic Community. This was a far different beast to today’s EU and the profound constitutional changes which subsequent treaties have introduced deserve to be put to the voters.
The scaremongers that suggest the UK will suffer badly from EU withdrawal examine only one side of the coin. The EU is becoming increasingly moribund and over regulated and the world has changed. Threats from big business leaders to move their operations are just that - threats. The head of Ford UK recently announced such a threat. This was from a country who recently closed its operations in Southampton and upped sticks to Turkey - courtesy of EU cash. Very beneficial to the UK.
I’ve argued this many times before on AB and cannot be bothered to go through all the facts and numbers again. But trade and investment with the UK will continue in the event of our withdrawal. We buy far more from Europe than we sell. France and Germany will still sell their Peugeots and BMWs here courtesy of individual trade agreements which would be easily and quickly established.
However, back to the question. Politicians of all parties are opposed to all referendums because it robs them of their raison d’etre. They seem to forget that they are there to represent people and facilitate their wishes, not to indulge in their personal foibles. A constitutional matter such as the considerable erosion of sovereignty that accompanies an ever increasingly federal EU is far too important to be left to them. And the biggest reason of all why they don’t want to see this particular referendum held is that they are fearful of the result. If they believed they would get resounding support for our continued membership it would be held tomorrow.
Dtc // boosting the economy, essential services and coastal defences. //
How would you do that. Where would the money come from ?
Borrow, borrow and put us deeper in debt. ?
DTC //Best to work for change from within...... // Such as ?
What do you think we have been trying to do for the past 50 odd years and failing.
DTC // tariffs put on us from all around our major export markets. //
Which markets ? They need us more than we need them. They export far more to us . They wouldn't risk putting tariffs on our goods because they
know we would retalitate in kind.
In a nutshell it would be a trade war , which would hurt them badly, far more than us. 93% of the cars bought in this country are produced abroad so who's going to lose out in a tariff war certainly not us.
How would you do that. Where would the money come from ?
Borrow, borrow and put us deeper in debt. ?
DTC //Best to work for change from within...... // Such as ?
What do you think we have been trying to do for the past 50 odd years and failing.
DTC // tariffs put on us from all around our major export markets. //
Which markets ? They need us more than we need them. They export far more to us . They wouldn't risk putting tariffs on our goods because they
know we would retalitate in kind.
In a nutshell it would be a trade war , which would hurt them badly, far more than us. 93% of the cars bought in this country are produced abroad so who's going to lose out in a tariff war certainly not us.
Quite so, modeller.
You only have to look at the numbers instead of swallowing the scaremongering to understand that the Europhiles are talking solid waste. There is no reason to believe that any nation will suddenly cease what is mutually beneficial trading should we quit the EU. It will also release huge potential in UK companies who currently do not trade abroad but have to comply with the sometimes ludicrous regulation of the single market. These benefits would be enormous but are usually ignored.
You only have to look at the numbers instead of swallowing the scaremongering to understand that the Europhiles are talking solid waste. There is no reason to believe that any nation will suddenly cease what is mutually beneficial trading should we quit the EU. It will also release huge potential in UK companies who currently do not trade abroad but have to comply with the sometimes ludicrous regulation of the single market. These benefits would be enormous but are usually ignored.
The Conservatives do not have a majority in parliament which is why they are in a coalition with the LibDems. They do not have a majority because not enough people voted for their policies. The LibDems are a pro European party and are not ashemed to say so. Which is why the EU referendum bill is a private members bill from a backbench Conservative MP and not a Government bill. If it were a Government Bill its passage into law would be speedy and straight forward.
Whenever the Conservatives have had a majority, they have never given the people a vote on Europe. They took us into the EEC without a vote. It took a Labour Government to let the people to finally have a vote. Before the last election Cameron promised a referendum on the signing of the Lisbon Treaty. But the small print on that promise was "if it hasn't already been ratified" , knowing full well that it would be.
This Private members Bill is again a con. If the Conservatives really wanted you to have a vote they would have set the wheel in motion shortly after they formed a Government. Instead, they introduce a Bill with the clock ticking down to the next election. Because of the short deadline, Labour can delay the Bill in the Lords meaning it is u likely to make it into law in time.
Cynics like me believe the Conservatives were well aware of that possibility and never intended delivering a referendum. The sole purpose of the bill was to play the blame game, that the OP unfortunately falls for easily.
Labour and the LibDems believe the country is better off in Europe so they don't want us out. They do not trust the electorate to make the right decission in a referendum, so they won't give them an opportunity.
The Conservatives are tied in knots by Europe and have been for 40 years. The Conservative leaders think the same as Labour and the LibDems, and want to stay in Europe, but they are afraid to say so. Grassroots Tories are anti EU. Which is why this whole charade is taking place. Cameron promises something he can't deliver. Labour kill it. Cameron says I tried but the nasty lefties stopped you having a vote.
If the Conservatives were genuine, they would abandon the vote tomorrow and they would guarantee the a Referendum on Europe withina year, if the Conservatives win the election with a majority. Let the people decide.
But they won't.
Whenever the Conservatives have had a majority, they have never given the people a vote on Europe. They took us into the EEC without a vote. It took a Labour Government to let the people to finally have a vote. Before the last election Cameron promised a referendum on the signing of the Lisbon Treaty. But the small print on that promise was "if it hasn't already been ratified" , knowing full well that it would be.
This Private members Bill is again a con. If the Conservatives really wanted you to have a vote they would have set the wheel in motion shortly after they formed a Government. Instead, they introduce a Bill with the clock ticking down to the next election. Because of the short deadline, Labour can delay the Bill in the Lords meaning it is u likely to make it into law in time.
Cynics like me believe the Conservatives were well aware of that possibility and never intended delivering a referendum. The sole purpose of the bill was to play the blame game, that the OP unfortunately falls for easily.
Labour and the LibDems believe the country is better off in Europe so they don't want us out. They do not trust the electorate to make the right decission in a referendum, so they won't give them an opportunity.
The Conservatives are tied in knots by Europe and have been for 40 years. The Conservative leaders think the same as Labour and the LibDems, and want to stay in Europe, but they are afraid to say so. Grassroots Tories are anti EU. Which is why this whole charade is taking place. Cameron promises something he can't deliver. Labour kill it. Cameron says I tried but the nasty lefties stopped you having a vote.
If the Conservatives were genuine, they would abandon the vote tomorrow and they would guarantee the a Referendum on Europe withina year, if the Conservatives win the election with a majority. Let the people decide.
But they won't.
a very good analysis gromit. Can't fault that at all. It just disturbs me that most of the commons, regardless of party are pretty sure the public want out but they use these tricks to ignore the will of the people. I can only assume that they value their ticket on the gravy train above the will of the nation.
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