Society & Culture1 min ago
Eu Ref.
As it stands at the moment I am thinking of changing from STAY to GO. Its mostly the idea of Europe becoming even bigger and more Germanic - I might change yet - still time
How does anyone else feel?
How does anyone else feel?
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It will come as no surprise that I am for leaving.
There is nothing that the UK’s membership of the EU provides that could not be achieved outside but there is an awful lot that our membership prevents that could be of positive advantage to us.
You can forget, for the moment, the alleged economic advantages or disadvantages; you can even forget immigration; you can definitely forget the ludicrous claim that the EU “keeps us safe and secure” .The EU’s avowed intention is the creation of a single nation state called Europe together with the abolition of national governments. The UK will have no control over its taxes, its spending, its armed forces, its welfare policies, its foreign policy, its justice system or just about anything else the government currently controls. Revenue from taxes will be doled out by the EU and will have to be spent in the way the EU prescribes. Borders within the EU will cease to exist entirely. The UK’s opt out from Schengen will be discontinued. (It is already being denounced since the rest of the EU has begun to reap the rewards of their folly).
This will not happen tomorrow, or the day after. It will happen “salami style” with each step “not really that much different” to the one before. No amount of “renegotiation” by Mr Cameron or anybody else will alter that. No “opt outs” that he gains will be sufficiently robust to prevent the UK either becoming part of that state or forced to leave (if indeed a further treaty change has not been secured by then which prevents it).
If the people of the UK are happy with that (and indeed everything else about the EU) then they should vote to remain. If they want anything else they must vote to leave because they will not be given another chance.
There is nothing that the UK’s membership of the EU provides that could not be achieved outside but there is an awful lot that our membership prevents that could be of positive advantage to us.
You can forget, for the moment, the alleged economic advantages or disadvantages; you can even forget immigration; you can definitely forget the ludicrous claim that the EU “keeps us safe and secure” .The EU’s avowed intention is the creation of a single nation state called Europe together with the abolition of national governments. The UK will have no control over its taxes, its spending, its armed forces, its welfare policies, its foreign policy, its justice system or just about anything else the government currently controls. Revenue from taxes will be doled out by the EU and will have to be spent in the way the EU prescribes. Borders within the EU will cease to exist entirely. The UK’s opt out from Schengen will be discontinued. (It is already being denounced since the rest of the EU has begun to reap the rewards of their folly).
This will not happen tomorrow, or the day after. It will happen “salami style” with each step “not really that much different” to the one before. No amount of “renegotiation” by Mr Cameron or anybody else will alter that. No “opt outs” that he gains will be sufficiently robust to prevent the UK either becoming part of that state or forced to leave (if indeed a further treaty change has not been secured by then which prevents it).
If the people of the UK are happy with that (and indeed everything else about the EU) then they should vote to remain. If they want anything else they must vote to leave because they will not be given another chance.
I voted yes in the 70's but that was for the EEC.... European Economic Community. We ended up with wine lakes, butter mountains, etc etc. French, Spanish ships fishing in our waters taking huge amounts of fish when our own fisherman had to keep to 'quotas'. It destroyed a large number of our fishing fleets. And now we have no control over our borders, our Courts are overruled by European Courts. We're ruled by unelected officials. I could go on. And on. Unfortunately my three sons are adamant that we need to vote 'stay' and I'm totally unable to change their minds. They've always - as far as they're concerned ' been in Europe. None of them can remember a time when our country belonged to us. I get frightened sometimes when I walk down a street in our locality and can barely see a white face. Visited Bradford recently, that's really scary. I've never been racist but at the end of the day you can't get a quart into a pint pot. No wonder the NHS, schools, GP's are in trouble. Just plain too many people.
Even Thatcher would have probably voted out.
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Excellently put as usual New Judge but you forgot to add that the EU is going to get bigger and cost the UK more money both by our "membership" fee and by more immigration from poorer eastern european countries putting a greater strain on our public services.
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Im out.
Dave.
http://
Im out.
Dave.
-- answer removed --
I'm in favour of staying in the EU. One problem I see if we leave is that Scotland for certain and probably Wales will decide to leave the UK and seek to join the EU in their own right. This will leave England as a non EU state that has a land border with two EU nations. What are the implications of that?
I voted no to the Common Market in the 70s I felt then that there was insufficient information to to make a positive decision. There is still insufficient information with hidden agendas and deals made in secret TTIP a classic example. They are so far removed from the plebs that populate Europe I simply don't trust them.
I'm leaning towards exit.
I'm leaning towards exit.
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