9-11

[RLM89]

Does anyone believe that the factual evidence against the alleged story that we are being told about 9/11 (that it was Osama Bin Laden's terrorist group that blew up the WTC 1, 2 and 7, a part of the pentagon and some poor farmer's field in pennesylvania? Because I've been looking into it and there's alot of evidence that doesn't match up so my mind is suggesting foul play on the part of the american government and leaders etc

[China Doll]

Hi RLM89,

Could you put a link up please? I'd be really interested to read that, I've not heard this before.

Thanks! xx

[RLM89]

I've been doing some studies and I have a couple of sources.

I have been studying the temperatures that would have needed to have been reached for the structure of the twin towers to basically melt and that is triple and a bit more of what Jet A Fuel (the type of kerosene used in american aviation)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Fuel


www.whatreallyhappened.com/thermite


There is also a video on images.google.com on their top 100

[newtron]

This video puts the whole conspiracy theory together in one big picture.

http://www.loosechange911.com/

I don't know what to think.

[RLM89]

I believe that all what we are being told, which let's face it, isn't much, is false, because how can kerosene which burns at an average temperature of 210 degrees Celsuis quadrupal and a bit more to melt the steel structures of all the buildings that collapsed, which are World Trade Center 1, World Trade Center 2 and World Trade Center 7 (It's interesting as well that most people I talk to about 9/11 and in particular The World Trade Center area they didn't actually realise that World Trade Center 7 collapsed as well)

The World Trade Center Buildings are the only known Skyscrapers to have collapsed due to fire, There have been buildings such as ones in madrid in 2005 which burned for more than 24 hours (I think) in a blazing inferno and still actually managed to have that much strength in the core of the building it held a crane up, so why therefore did the WTC's collapse after just 90 minutes of smoke (anyone who has tried to light a wood fire knows smoke is a bad sign as it means there is a lack of oxygen to the fire) and why did it fall at free fall speed? And why did World Trade Center 7 collapse when there wasn't a plane that crashed into it so how did it's structure give way if the theory of the plane's crashing into the Twin Towers caused it structure to buckle and that led to it's collapse......?

And That's Just For Starters lol

[maxximus]

http://www.st911.org/

[vehelpfulguy]

It is obvious that George Bush arranged it all.

The three planes were flown by Lord Lucan, JFK and Shergar.

[OBonio]

I think your argument is flawed in that you think the highest temperature reachable is only that of the burning fuel. If the heat doesn't escape, then it just gets hotter and hotter.

[LazyGun]

How many construction workers are there in the world, RLM?How many engineers, architects, physicists? How many of those will have taken the time to study the reports and the evidence in the 5 years and numerous scientific journals, newspapers, and TV documentaries do you reckon? Masses of them,I would have thought.
How many of those people, far more qualified to understand the mechanics of the WTC collapse than your average member of the public, have shouted out to the world " NO! the US Govt theory about 911 is wrong!" Its a coverup!"?
Very few actually make any claims to the contrary about the official explanation.And several of the scientists who have been quoted in support of the CT theories have made it very clear they were misquoted or quoted out of context.
Why is this do you reckon? Are they all part of the conspiracy ? Or have they all missed the vital evidence?Maybe they have been eliminated, or been blackmailed into silence!
I reckon its because they have seen the evidence, the reports of the investigation, and have decided, based upon their own experience and training that the official explanation of the collapse is correct .
When I see reputable scientists, universities, construction companies and engineers, fire safety officers etc coming out in droves from all corners of the world crying out against the conspiracy concocted by the dastardly US Govt, thats when I will believe its a conspiracy.
All of the allegations made by the CT crowd have been refuted, time and time again. All claim that anyone who believes the "official" view is a close minded sheep. I say that anyone who believes what they see on the CT sites without checking for counter arguments and explanations are the ones that are close minded.
You blithely assert that a Govt would mount a conspiracy of mass murder against its own citizens, and prate knowingly about the CIA and "false flag" operations etc. Its a despicable, wicked

[maxximus]

please put up some facts lazy gun, not popular mechanics thankyou.

[LazyGun]

Bah typical response. The "facts" that you CT types put out are refuted, not only in popular mechanics, but in every scientific report I have seen about the whole affair since... what do you guys do? Ignore the refutation, refuse to consider that you might after all be wrong.

If the "facts" are as the CT believers state, and all the refutations are incorrect, where are the legions of architects, structural engineers, fire safety officers, demolition experts, construction workers all around the globe standing up to be counted? None of you can answer that! You watch a specious couple of videos and read one or two websites and become convinced your interpretation of reality is the only one out there, propagating the myth of a government conspiracy and accusing the US Govt in particular of Mass Murder of its own citizens.
Such assertions are an insult to the 3000 or so innocents murdered that day.

[ianess]

Ye Gods!.........I thought we were the good guys!

Bush and Blair telling porkies.........surely not.

[RLM89]

LazyGun, I have a question for you, why would george bush want to kill 3000+ american citizens upon one day? I have the answer, or certainly a plausible one. Perhaps it's the fact that he owed a certain few saudi arabian business men lots of money, so much that they would have done what the KGB wouldn't have even been able to think of, and he needed excuses to go to war with oil rich countries, Iraq and Afganistan, did you ever notice when these wars were at their zenith at the price of oil, unleaded petrol and deisel was? I know afghanistan isn't oil rich itself but it's a well known fact that if you take an oil pipeline from the Kasabian sea and run it through turkbechistan or uzbekistan or somewhere like that and then through afghanistan into a port in pakistan off into boats and then you have your hands upon more oil, low and behold since September 11 2001 this has become a reality. Unless you bother trying to refute my comments which are based upon true fact taken from both sides of the argument with facts and not just opinions I would quite honestly just keep them to yourself

xxx

[maxximus]

all you did was repeat yourself, surely you can provide something as you seem so convinced?

[maxximus]

http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion91 1commissionreport

[newtron]

One thing that I find interesting is that if most 'experts' totally agree with the official explanation as Lazygun suggests, they should be abe to easily answer or invalidate all the questions brought up by the CT people. Does anyone know of any site where someones attempts to answer all these valid questions according to the official explanation?

Some of the most compelling evidence to me is the absence of obvious air plane debris at the petagon crash site and the crash site in Pensylvania. Those are not the only two planes to crash in the history of the world. Are there other plane crash sites where the whole airplane, including the massive engines and the passengers were total disinegrated? I've seen pictures of many air plane crashes and you could always see obvious evidence of the presence of an air plane and passengers (ie. wings, body parts etc.). I guess it is possible that the CT people have just got their facts wrong.

As I said, I don't know what to think. According to that film that I posted above, the conspiracy theory gets a little far fetched in the end. And I certaintly can't see George W Bush being the master mind behind it. I think that the truth most likely lies somewhere in between the official explanation and the conpiracy theory.

[Pippa68]

Having watched the loose change video several times, I am inclined to believe their version of events..but that is obviously what they want me to believe.

The only thing I can think about is that if flight 93 didn't exist, where were the passengers spirited away to...something sinister, or a nice pay off.. where are Todd Beamer et al?

[maxximus]

here's a site with loads of plane crash pictures, all loaded with debris. http://www.planecrashinfo.com/pictures.htm here's a crash site from 1950 the (first broken arrow) the story is the u.s. government sent an expedition in to destroy the evidence in 1954 and yet there is still wreckage there to this day. http://www.cowtown.net/proweb/brokenarrow2.htm when a large plane crashes, there is debris.

[newtron]

Yeah, I agree maximus. So, the supporters of official explanation only have to cite one historic plane crash where the whole plane and all the passengers were completely desintegrated to support their argument. Can they do it?

[newtron]

The other side of the coin is, as I suggested above, that the CT supporters are lying and/or twisting the truth a little to support what they 'believe'. Maybe they chose to show only pictures of the plane crashes, where the evidence of airplane debris was hidden from view. Although, I've never heard anyone on either side suggest that there was airplane debris found at these sites.

The main problem now is that all the web sites that are concerned with explaining 9/11 have an agenda to support a conclusion that they 'believe'.

At this point in time, it is very difficult to access raw data in order to do your own non-biased analysis of what really happened.

Maybe South Park got it right: The conspeiracy theory is the actual conspiracy. The government wants us to believe that they were behind 9/11 LOL.

[maxximus]

i here what your sayig newtron and i don't know who did what, but i personally have not seen much proof of the official story, we more or less have to just take their word for it. these were all crime scenes and they were not treated as such, evidence immediately scooped up and disposed of etc. 20 times the dollar value was spent on clinton, the cigar and the lady than what was spent investigating these crimes, doesn't matter who did it, they were still crimes. and most of the effort and money that was spent, was spent on preventing a proper investigation. to many unanswered questions, anomilies and coincidences. the u.s. department of agriculture was able to zero in on a single cow, somewhere in bumf_ck saskatchewan and declare it to have madcow disease out of 3.5 million or so cows in all of canada. banning the sale of canadian beef to the u.s.. maybe the u.s. department of agriculture should be leading the war on terrorism instead of their military and they would have found osama and his crew in their cave by now and this would all be sorted.