Capital Punishment

[DarthPhilius]

Im for capital punishment. Other people's views?
Wasnt sure what section to put this in)

[mariner2]

It probably should be in the criminal law section where I've started a similar thread, but I'm with you, it should be brought back (but it never will)
Yes, there have been wrongful convictions, but these have received a disproportionate amount of publicity compared to the 75 people that have been murdered by killers that were given "life" sentences then released. These of course, have had no publicity whatsoever.
There are inherent risks in anything that is for the greater good of the whole community and capital punishment falls into that category.

[jenstar]

Not for murder, rape or child abuse. But I think the death penalty for TV announcers who yak over the ends of programmes would be a good idea. And people whose dogs attempt to chase me when I cycle past.

[NJOK]

"Yes, there have been wrongful convictions..."

Hey ho! No system's perfect eh?

I'm sure you'd say the same if it was your mum who'd been wrongly convicted of a crime and been strangled to death by a noose. It's for the community!

[DarthPhilius]

But surely if someone pleads guilty, and/or there is foolproof forensic evidence saying they did it and millions of witnesses, doesnt that mean wrongful convictions could be stopped and real killers/rapists etc would be gone from the world?

[naomi24]

NJOK - Let's put the boot on the other foot. If it was your mum that had been brutally murdered, would you feel so sympathetic towards the perpetrator? Time we stopped caring about the criminal and started thinking about the victim. If there's no doubt whatsoever, then yes, capital punishment should be the sentence.

[Lonnie]

I've always said, when a crime has been committed, make it personel and imagine if it had happpened to you and yours, then think about how you'd feel.

Bring back hanging, and as a matter of interest, it would still be legal to use the Stock and Pillories, lets start using them again.

[NJOK]

naomi, I'm not being sympathetic to the perpetrator. I'm being sympathetic to the innocent people who get wrongly convicted.

You can't release someone from a death penalty.

And to be honest, if my mum was brutally murdered and I satisfied my own blood-lust by seeing the murderer get executed, how would I feel 10 years later when it turned out not to be him? Sick to my stomach, and rightly so.

[naomi24]

njok - I did say if there was no doubt whatsoever.

[Beanmistriss]

Make life mean life and make that life bl00dy hard. I can't think how anyone would be satisfied by seeing someone else die. If someone in my family was murdered I would rather the person had to be locked in a wee cell thinking about that every day and eating bread and water before going out to dig a road than they were dead and then it was over. Also I think that being satisfied by their death would make me as bad as they were.

[mariner2]

NJOK - why do the antis ALWAYS say "imagine if one of your relatives was wrongfully convicted and hanged" and totally ignore the fact that they have a far better chance of being murdered by a killer released from a "life" sentence?
As I pointed out above there have been 75 of those in this country.
Released killers have a track record, it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that they'll do it again, and as for my mum, well, I'll risk the astronomically small chance that she'll be convicted of a murder she didn't commit.

[mariner2]

Beanmistriss - your humanity is very commendable, but the problem is that today's home secretary can say all he likes about "recommending this prisoner never be released" but what about 5 years down the line?
There's no guarantee that Lord Longford won't come along bleating that Myra Hindley is a reformed character and deserves to be released.
In the interest of justice there should be capital punishment, otherwise the victim's family will be condemned to a life sentence of watching the news and living in fear of some Brussels bureaucrat deciding that prison infringes murderers' human rights.

[mariner2]

Oh yes,bloodlust - that's another thing you get accused of if you dare agree with capital punishment.
When they destroy a dangerous dog after it has savaged a child, I don't go around slavering at the mouth with the joy of bloodlust, I just regard it as an unpleasant necessity, but a necessity all the same.

[Beanmistriss]

Mariner : Nowhere did I accuse people who agree with capital punishment of having "bloodlust". I personally find the idea of killing someone sickening to my stomach. I see in some situations (war etc) there is no alternative but I think there is no need in situations where there is an alternative. That alternative is to lock certain people up for life having a very hard and sh1tty time of it with no chance of getting out. So not really a case of my humanity is it? I'm not suggesting they should have playstations and get out in 5 years as they are reformed am I? If I made the rules families wouldn't worry about them getting out as it would never happen. I'm not suggesting it will ever happen but in my opinion thats how it should work.

[NJOK]

Granted, bloodlust was a deliberately sensationalist word.

So let me put it another way. I have no doubt that, after seeing a loved one murdered, most of us would gain satisfaction and possibly comfort from seeing the perpetrator killed.

Does that mean that the stateshould not only encourage it, but facilitate it? Course not.

If a negligent doctor killed my girlfriend by recklessly bungling an operation, I'd probably feel much better if he got punched several times in the face. But should the state take that into account when they decide on a punishment for him?

Is that what punishment's about? Making the families feel a bit better?

What about society as a whole? Should it be okay to appease the family's feelings if it means sickening the majority of people who want to live in a civilised society. Don't their feelings count?

So suddenly the argument shifts. No, you all say, it's about deterrent. And if the punishment for murder was hanging, people would think twice... Wrong. There's no evidence that capital punishment reduces the murder rate, in any country. And suggesting that someone would choose not kill someone because the punishment has increased from life imprisonment to murder is an absurd misunderstanding of basic psychology.

Then again, I've never had a family member shot in the face. So what do I know?

[mariner2]

I think it is a deterrent (the murder rate has doubled here since it was abolished) put your hand in the fire and it burns, so people tend not to do it, but even if it's proved otherwise, I would still back it because it is justice, right and proper.
There are other reasons - I resent �2-3000 per week of taxpayer's money being spent on keeping Ian Huntley in pampered protected comfort for example.
How about a vote on that then? �3.2 million to keep Huntley in a 3 star hotel for 30 years, or �20 for an overdose of morphine and spend the savings on cancer research?

[DarthPhilius]

Great point. It would seem the good; less taxpayers money for prisoners, killers gone from society, people feeling safe again, outweighs the bad; a possible wrong conviction

[whowhatwhy]

to all people who are pro executing people for their crimes I have a question....Would you be prepared to physically pull the handle and take another persons life away...then carry on living as if nothing had happened? It's one thing murdering another in the context of a War or personal conflict...but to have someone unrelated to the initial crime pull the handle in a pre-meditated execution in the name of someone's perceived 'justice', seem wrong and says more about human nature than the person who has committed the crime. I do understand the emotions here, if someone i care about had been hurt by another in such a horrific manor, I too would want some form of retribution. But that should be for the victim or victims family to decide / implement not the state. Cause and effect is then experienced my all parties involved. Just a thought.

[mariner2]

I don't tnink that's really relevant although plenty of people will answer yes.

[whowhatwhy]

Okay, well I'm very much against it anyway. And whilst i'm here i'll also say that there is nothing more hypocritical or pathetic than religious people who support a death penalty. Deciding to not simply murder criminals for their (terrible) actions, is in my opinion, a sign of an mature, developed culture that is more concerned with treating the cause as opposed to killing the symptoms. The death penalty should be outlawed worldwide.

[netibiza]

Hang 'em high.