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Voting age
Gordon Brown is backing redicing the voting age to sixteen, I personally think its too young, what are your opinions?.
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Unless its changed, you can't join the Army (regulars) before 17, and you definately can't see active service unti your 18.
I think, regardless of the standard of education, you don't start learning about life until you leave school, and at sixteen, your stll to naive about polotics to have as say on who runs the country, most youngsters tend to lean towards the socialist side, and a good few change as they get a bit older.
Methinks if they do reduce the voting age to sixteen, its more votes for Labour, and I think thats the real reason for it.
I think, regardless of the standard of education, you don't start learning about life until you leave school, and at sixteen, your stll to naive about polotics to have as say on who runs the country, most youngsters tend to lean towards the socialist side, and a good few change as they get a bit older.
Methinks if they do reduce the voting age to sixteen, its more votes for Labour, and I think thats the real reason for it.
Well of course at times white men didn't allow black men to vote as they were not deemed to have the intellectual capacity to do so, and of course it wasn't until women started throwing hissy fits that it occurred to these self same men, that women who had reached the age of 30 might just have the ability as long as they were guided in this weighty matter by their husbands.
On here and in real life I have heard so called adults proclaim with pride that they do not vote as if this was some kind of achievement. In my opinion a wasted vote.
You think some 16 yr olds would vote for a teen idol, well in my rude opinion I think some of the adults here would vote for a You Tube link if they were told it was standing for parliament.
I am a middle aged women who is above average intelligence, but try as I might I can not fully understand the complexities of being a member of the European community. However no one would suggest that other over 18 voters like me should not have the right to vote just because we can not fully grasp all the political issues. So why shouldn't 16 year olds.
As for taxation, if you are 18 and in Uni education you haven't contributed either, shall we disenfranchise until people are in paid employment? What are the topics older people get anxious about that the young are indifferent too? Or is it that these are topics that only relate to the older. If you mean pensions, huge amounts of people of all ages are not investing in their future and for older age, this is not just applicable to the under 17.
Young people use the NHS, use Education, are affected by issues such as criminal justice system, civil liberties and other public matters, why shouldn't they have the same right to elect an MP. It is not as if suddenly we are going to be taken over by 16 old MPs. Mind you even if we were, whose to say they would be a less viable option than we have currently.
On here and in real life I have heard so called adults proclaim with pride that they do not vote as if this was some kind of achievement. In my opinion a wasted vote.
You think some 16 yr olds would vote for a teen idol, well in my rude opinion I think some of the adults here would vote for a You Tube link if they were told it was standing for parliament.
I am a middle aged women who is above average intelligence, but try as I might I can not fully understand the complexities of being a member of the European community. However no one would suggest that other over 18 voters like me should not have the right to vote just because we can not fully grasp all the political issues. So why shouldn't 16 year olds.
As for taxation, if you are 18 and in Uni education you haven't contributed either, shall we disenfranchise until people are in paid employment? What are the topics older people get anxious about that the young are indifferent too? Or is it that these are topics that only relate to the older. If you mean pensions, huge amounts of people of all ages are not investing in their future and for older age, this is not just applicable to the under 17.
Young people use the NHS, use Education, are affected by issues such as criminal justice system, civil liberties and other public matters, why shouldn't they have the same right to elect an MP. It is not as if suddenly we are going to be taken over by 16 old MPs. Mind you even if we were, whose to say they would be a less viable option than we have currently.
Well, what a swirling mass of contradictions.
16 year old's don't pay tax - What, are we means-testing the right to vote? A couple of hundred years ago, people were arguing that you shouldn't be able to vote if you didn't own land, remember?
Not experienced or intellectual enough - You could level similar charges at a 25 year old who flunked school or one who has never left education and is working towards a Phd, while living at home with mummy and daddy.
They're not interested in politics at that age - They won't use the vote then will they? And if they are interested then they will.
They're idealistic socialists - Hang on, so they do show an interest? Anyway, yes, I'd agree that many people become more right wing as they get older. In that case, in the interests of fairness, perhaps we should lop off the right to vote for people over the age of 80, when they become bitter and self-interested and right wing?
In fact, surely being idealistic and striving for an ideal society should mean that you're more entitled to a vote than older right-wingers who have ditched that ideal and focus on the me, me, me.
16 year old's don't pay tax - What, are we means-testing the right to vote? A couple of hundred years ago, people were arguing that you shouldn't be able to vote if you didn't own land, remember?
Not experienced or intellectual enough - You could level similar charges at a 25 year old who flunked school or one who has never left education and is working towards a Phd, while living at home with mummy and daddy.
They're not interested in politics at that age - They won't use the vote then will they? And if they are interested then they will.
They're idealistic socialists - Hang on, so they do show an interest? Anyway, yes, I'd agree that many people become more right wing as they get older. In that case, in the interests of fairness, perhaps we should lop off the right to vote for people over the age of 80, when they become bitter and self-interested and right wing?
In fact, surely being idealistic and striving for an ideal society should mean that you're more entitled to a vote than older right-wingers who have ditched that ideal and focus on the me, me, me.
NJOK, my idealistic ideas at 16 included putting politicians from feuding nations together in a room and letting them fight it out instead of sending soldiers to war. Nice idea, but unfortunately life isn't like that, and as I later discovered, it's never going to happen.
I don't think all 80 year olds become bitter, self-interested and right wing. In fact, in my experience, most from working class backgrounds cling rather more to outdated socialist or communist ideolology than anything else.
I don't think all 80 year olds become bitter, self-interested and right wing. In fact, in my experience, most from working class backgrounds cling rather more to outdated socialist or communist ideolology than anything else.
naomi,
Of course not all 80 year olds are like that. Nor do all 16 year olds share the views you held at that age.
I dare say, there's a fair few 40 year olds who don't know what the word 'idealistic' means, or who can't even read this sentence, or who believe that we should bring back 'outdated' laws like hanging or the poll tax.
Disenfranchising people who are old enough to work for a living, marry and start a family because they haven't fallen into line with your worldview seems like a bit of an odd approach to democracy though? What if they never do? Should we make them sit an exam?
Of course not all 80 year olds are like that. Nor do all 16 year olds share the views you held at that age.
I dare say, there's a fair few 40 year olds who don't know what the word 'idealistic' means, or who can't even read this sentence, or who believe that we should bring back 'outdated' laws like hanging or the poll tax.
Disenfranchising people who are old enough to work for a living, marry and start a family because they haven't fallen into line with your worldview seems like a bit of an odd approach to democracy though? What if they never do? Should we make them sit an exam?
Naomi,
I agree 100% with your last answer.
Ruby,
As you pointed out in anther post, you don't often agree with me, thats good, makes for interesting discussions, now,
The ladies vote, you have a point, except that it was adult ladies, the Suffregettes mainly, not children just out of school.
Unfortunately, again, I take your point, but this thread is not about colour.
And thanks to all of you for replying, and sharing your views, whether you agreed with me or not.
I agree 100% with your last answer.
Ruby,
As you pointed out in anther post, you don't often agree with me, thats good, makes for interesting discussions, now,
The ladies vote, you have a point, except that it was adult ladies, the Suffregettes mainly, not children just out of school.
Unfortunately, again, I take your point, but this thread is not about colour.
And thanks to all of you for replying, and sharing your views, whether you agreed with me or not.
Lonnie,
No this isn't about race or gender but about perceived capacity. My point was that historically women and black men were not perceived as having the intellectual capacity, the maturity, the ability to reason, the rational skills to make sensible decisions when it came to vote. This was a decision made by men who were either insensible to the concept that women and black people were capable of making decisions including politics. Or by men who feared that if women/black had the vote, these people may not vote with the powerful, themselves, so they wanted to withhold the power that comes with being enfranchised.
What is your stance? 18 and under as some how intellectually, rationally and cognitively less able than the 18 plus, or that the 16 to 18 might rock the boat! Or...........
Bye the way the Young Farmers if allowed to vote are probably the most right wing group of young people outside of youth BNP.
No this isn't about race or gender but about perceived capacity. My point was that historically women and black men were not perceived as having the intellectual capacity, the maturity, the ability to reason, the rational skills to make sensible decisions when it came to vote. This was a decision made by men who were either insensible to the concept that women and black people were capable of making decisions including politics. Or by men who feared that if women/black had the vote, these people may not vote with the powerful, themselves, so they wanted to withhold the power that comes with being enfranchised.
What is your stance? 18 and under as some how intellectually, rationally and cognitively less able than the 18 plus, or that the 16 to 18 might rock the boat! Or...........
Bye the way the Young Farmers if allowed to vote are probably the most right wing group of young people outside of youth BNP.
ruby27 - We've all donned the green cloak of invisibility now and again. What the hell! Look at Coco Pops and the Demon Dentist and Kroozer, the green cloak of invisibility slipped just a little on them all. Human weakness, or rather, just showing us that you too are human. (Big Kiss .... mmmmoi!) Welcome to the club of deceit! Great innit?
But .... why not tell kids from the age of 5 or 7 that one day, they will have to sit a citizen exam, that will entitle them to vote, sit on a jury, borrow library books, and get twenty free bus rides per year .... and free cakes! Bless you m'dear.
But .... why not tell kids from the age of 5 or 7 that one day, they will have to sit a citizen exam, that will entitle them to vote, sit on a jury, borrow library books, and get twenty free bus rides per year .... and free cakes! Bless you m'dear.
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