religion For/Against

[elleroo]

i do have great admiration and respect for the pope and am truly sorry he died... but does anyone else think religion is a big pile of rubbish?

i hate it and all it stands for, a way to control and dictate. to tell people that certain beliefs and behaviours are wrong when the whole concept is based on stories and half truths!! how glad i am that i have not been suckered in to this way of life!

[ll_billym]

Yes, people other than yourself do think that religion is a "big pile of rubbish".  Yet some other people gain a great deal of comfort and happiness from religion and it enriches their lives.

I personally follow no religion but I do not feel superior to people that have "been suckered in to this way of life" as you obviously do.

You also need to get your feelings straight about how you feel about the pope, how can you have great admiration and respect for a man that is at the head of something you profess to hate.  Or were you just saying that to sweeten the rest of your post?

[SC00BY]

Check out the thread underneath. Pope/religion debates are popular tonight!!

[slimfandango]

I have been on both sides and I think you have no idea how lucky you actually are that you have not been suckered into this way of life. I am AMAZED that there are not more services offered to those exiting xtianity. As for those cowards who say they do not believe in it but do not wish to rock the boat/trample on anyone else's faith, I say **** em. **** you cowards, what kind of way is that to live your short life? I only managed to escape it thanks to the bravery of those who did not mind rocking the boat and stated to me quite categorically that believing in it was tantamount to eternally believing in Santa Claus, and I thank them for it.

How many kids died in Africa of Aids as a direct result of the bs spread by 'well meaning' but brainwashed catholic aid workers? GRRRR! The whole thing makes my blood boil.

[lillylampost]

Against

[shirley1]

Many wars and much human suffering has taken place in the name of "religion" but as always it is the actions of the "so called" religious people not the religion itself.  I understand what you mean about the crusaders who turned up in Africa with a bible and in a short space of time left with all the land!  I am not a practising catholic but I consider myself religious.  The way I treat people is my religion.  There is much to be gained from the discovery of spirituality and reading about the many religions of the world.  For any travellers it gives an insight into many cultures/ histories.  Those who dismiss it are missing on a very sacred area of life.  However, each to his own.  Everybody has their own path to walk.  Peace

[tanyavee]

I normally go to church on Sunday (I haven�t gone today because it will be full of worshipers as the pope has popped off) because it�s on the way to the pub my boyfriend is a catholic and when the service is over its opening time. My boyfriend says my place of worship is in the shopping mall, he�s right!!!

[delilahcat]

Absolutely against.

[tartanwiz]

You are entitled to your beliefs, but you must allow other people their beliefs too. Belief in a higher power might be a load of rubbish to you, and if that works for you well OK, but if you wanted to force that idea on others, you would be just as narrow minded as any Bible thumping fundamentalist. Live and let live, that's what I say. Personally I think there is more to life than just existence and procreation, and more to death than extinction. I also think that there is something beyond what we call nature.

[Romeo]

I have tons of admiration for the late Pope, but disagree on some of his social ideas. He opposed contraception, married clergy and women priests. More than that, he tried to force these ideas on millions of others. Still, on the whole he was a good guy, speaking out against the injustice of Third World poverty and the whole capitalism thing.

[delilahcat]

But Romeo, while speaking out against Third World poverty he told these poorest of the poor to continue to breed and helped to continue the spread of AIDS.

Those are not the actions of a good man.

[netibiza]

I think Religion is a private and personal thing.  Don't shout about it (unless its your job) but that also goes for many things.  We are all different thank Heavens.

[slimfandango]

The problem is that it never can be private and personal. Two examples:

1) We don't lead a static existence. We are born, we grow older, we die. This leads us to pass on 'culture' and 'beliefs' to our offspring and for them to grow up believing it. So it's not 'private and personal' here: I'm at the moment watching my neice, of 5 years age, hardly able to reason properly, being brainwashed into believing what is 'private and personal' for someone.

2) George Bush is the probably the most powerful man on earth, and is a 'practising Christian', yet there is nothing really private or personal about his faith. It clearly (and he states this) influences many of his most far reaching policies.

If people decide not to live alone in caves, but together in society, then we have to be clear about what holds us together: it's REASON. We talk to each other, on the basis of rational principles, we make laws, perform deeds, set up institutions, teach our young, all on the basis of reason. Religion specifically abandons reason.It is a throwback to a time when reason was not able to provide answers about origins or mind, and it was used as a means of control then. It has no place now. We have usurped the answers it provided. If we allow a special case where "reasonableness" can be abandoned, then we may as well abandon ALL "reasonableness". When will the world waken up to the fact that talk of 'faith' and 'belief' are nothing more than a sham cover-up for the unintelligibility of a very poor 'guess' at what the world is about.

Tartanwiz, my point is that what I am arguing for is never about 'belief'. I would never ever enter a discussion with someone about what I 'believe' on the basis that it is a contradiction in terms. I will discuss that which I subscribe to on the basis that I can provide reasons for it, and no, I have no time at all for those who say, well I am entitled to have my 'guess' (belief).

[delilahcat]

slimfandango, I have rarely seen such a sane, weel-reasoned out point of view.

I think the fact that netibiza thinks we shouldn't really express our own sincerely held views on a public forum says it all.

[El D]

Indeed the outpouring of grief for the Pope, perhaps one of the most privileged men in the world who need not do more than come out with a few generic soundbites to be lauded, is symptomatic of the problem with religion. In actual fact he achieved very, very little to help those who needed him most, the thousands starving to death and dying of plagues. And I agree with slim, the more people that feel free to trash these utterly ridiculous and childlike beliefs for the harmful lies they actually are the close we can move to a world where bigoted unsubstatiated belief systems are finally eradicated.

[bazwillrun]

Religion is based on faith.

One dictionaries meaning for the word faith, "That of which there is little if any proof"

Just about sums up religion, total garbage, one of the main reasons humanity is in such a state.

As for the Vatican, well, it makes some of the corrupt African states look like angels 

[RevShirls]

Religion is, obviously, a big pile of rubbish to many but also something that is embraced and lived and cherished by many others - that is the richness and the diversity of the world we live in. It is important that we share our views and respect each others rights to have these views. I think many people generalise about religion and the views that religious people hold. Of course, people generalise about atheism and other things too. I suppose I am better qualified to speak from a religious perspective than an atheistic perspective. Not all religions seek to control and indeed I am not in favour of any such type of behaviour. Karl Marx was right that religion was (and still is to an extent) used as the opiate of the masses to keep the poor and the oppressed in their place - promising them a great life in the hereafter. This kind of religion is wrong and is an insult to human dignity and social justice. I could go on about this for ages but I won't. My point is that it is wrong to brand all religions and faiths as holding the same persepctive or acting in the same way.

Religions due tend to be based on faith for which there is no empirical evidence but that does not necessarily mean that those with a faith are wrong. I do have a problem with blind faith - people who just believe anything and everything - following only their heart. There are many, however, who have a well-balanced outlook on life and have tested their faith as far as is possible and ultimately have taken a leap of faith - a bit of a step in the dark, whether rightly or wrongly.

[trish1234567]

If one wants to worship something, then worship the Sun. We cannot live without the sun! Many of us exist very well as non-believers thank you very much and we don't feel the need to shout about it or try to convert others!  Incidentally, I don't believe in fairies either.

[5029]

I also think it is a big pile of rubbish

[elleroo]

well, ll_billym, use your brain and your eyes and read my message again, because nowhere in it did i say i felt "superior" to anybody in the world, i was saying i was glad i dont feel i have to believe in religion.   i am totally accepting of people who want to believe, a lot of my family are catholics.

also, use whatever intelligence you have to think that of course you can admire somebody but not like what they do, there are lots of reasons for admiration, it isnt just black and white how you seem to think! 

[RevShirls]

I think that you're being a bit harsh on ll_billym, elleroo. The way you posed your question and even your response implies superiority - suggesting that your views are better/superior than others (in this case those who are believers).

By saying that you are glad that you have not been "suckered into this way of life" implies that anyone who has a religious/christian faith has been suckered.

That's such a generalisation. Beliefs and faiths and religions vary to a huge extent and some of them don't believe or base themselves on many of the stories or half-truths that you refer to. Most of them do believe in some sort of God. Obviously, those who don't believe in God will believe that believers are gullible, naive, misinformed or whatever, but for those who do believe and live their life according to their faith, there is no way they feel they have been suckered. I, for one, believe that my belief and faith is well-reasoned and always open to be challenged. I do think it is more unhealthy to have a faith that demands uniform belief and practice.

I do not feel that I have been suckered into this way of life nor do I feel that I sucker anyone else into this way of life. It is not my aim in life to try and convert people. I accept people as they are. People should have the freedom to choose such things for themselves.