Let them hate as long as they fear...

[sandyRoe]

If society gives up on the young members of the underclass who have been rioting and looting how are they to be contained?
Are the words of Lucius Accius as appropriate today as they were in his days?

[netibiza]

Don't you think that giving them the dole and letting them not work, is giving up on them? They have no self respect and do not respect others. We are talking youngsters here. The dole was meant for emergency tide over, not a life style.

[daisya]

Well said neti.

[notasyoungasiwas]

hear hear

[LoftyLottie]

These were not entirely young members of the underclass, and besides that it's about time that we made no excuses for them. They seem to manage to afford Blackberries and all the latest gadgets, fashions, etc. I can't!!

The only thing they seem to have been deprived of is parental guidance and control and family values. Why were kids out on the streets at night at their age?

I live in an area where families are much more deprived and where there are no jobs - rural Norfolk.

Le's stop making excuses for them. It seems that we blame society/the government for everything these days. Let's look to ourselves and take some responsibility.

[netibiza]

I agree lottie, but I bet a lot of the older rioters have been on the dole most of their lives, what 20+ yrs. I for a fact know of one person (not a rioter) who has claimed the benefit for that long! Yes some of them work but it's the young ones who caused most of the trouble.

[LoftyLottie]

and where were their parents Neti.

My son would not have been out on the streets at that age under any circumstances.

[sandyRoe]

I've a suspicion that these young people live in a world that Kafka couldn't have dreamt of in in his worst nightmares. Be in a gang or be the target of that same gang. Knife crime, gun crime, all around you. And your circumstances are such that you'll never escape it.

[Sqad]

See lofty it is called "discipline" and this applies whether you live in rural Norfolk or Tottenham, but discipline has been allowed to slide over the past 30years.

These boys would now tell their parents to "p1ss off" now, knowing that there would be little that the parents could do.
Parents, teachers, policeman have all had the most effective disciplinary tool taken away from them......corporal punishment but as i like to call it "a clip around the ear"

This state if affairs was ill conceived 30+years ago and is now irreversible.

[sandyRoe]

These boys might tell their mothers to p 1 ss off as most come from broken homes.
I'm thinking that if they can't be saved from th wretched society they live in the looting and rioting will happen again. The drug dealing, and murderous violence that goes with it will continue unchecked.

[Brenden]

And giving children too many "rights", when they are too callow to earn them.

[LoftyLottie]

Sqad, the vast majority of young people are fine and respectful and have been brought up well. I personally have worked in schools and I know damn well that most of them, even in underpriviledged homes, would not tell there parents to 'Fosters off'. There are still good parents around. Discipline has not slid across the board.

It would seem that the parents of these hooligans might be afraid of their kids - or else just simply don't care.

[LoftyLottie]

Fosters off, indeed!!!

[LoftyLottie]

Sorry Sqad, I don't believe that these kids are lacking in corporal punishment, I think they are lacking in good parenting, responsible parenting - parents who actually take their job of parenting seriously.

A lot of violent kids are bred from violent parents. They have never been respected and as a result they don't respect themselves or anybody else.

[whiskeryron]

A lot of these kids are uncontrollable & do not know what discipline is, let us show them, let's have Boot Camps where they are taught discipline & what the word work means. When I was on holiday in Florida a couple of years ago I & my family saw prisoners from the local jail doing road repair work, is it possible to have the yobbos in this country doing this ? We would soon have all the potholes filled in & decent highways again.

Ron.

[LoftyLottie]

Saw a kid in the street being struck at by his screaming mother yesterday whilst she yelled at him that she had seen him thump his little sister!!!! In fact the whole town heard her screaming at him and thumping him. Of course he will thump, that is what he has learned to do.

[Sqad]

Lofty...we will have to agree to disagree on the abolition of corporal punishment.

[netibiza]

Ron, brilliant idea.

[marval]

Well said on, it is time something like that was done.

[netibiza]

lottie and sqad, I think both of you are saying is what is needed. My mother walloped me, and I deserved it, I rebelled and crept out at nights when she thought I was in bed. OK so I wasn't on the thieve or up to no good, just wanting to rock and roll a bit! We had discipline but it only came out in me later on. We were not a needy family we had money but we had to earn anything that we wanted. We had to respect other people's property and possessions. Even with my hija I found she "escaped" at night, so we put bars up at all windows. Some children just do not want to sit when told too.

[netibiza]

I would not want my child to be frightened of me.