50 Years Ago When Harold Wilson Was In...
ChatterBank0 min ago
Weaslley words
No apology from Blair for his failures. Total silence .
" Tough on Crime tough on the causes of Crime " 13 years of what .
Labour was a total failure in that respect with their slap on the wrist policies.
And the Tories ( The party for law and order. )
Cameron with his reported Hug a Hoodie and appointing that martinet against crime Kenneth Clarke. He was right in one respect .. We are a sick society .
We can't even look to the church for guidance they are too busy covering up for dodgey priests.
Have we any politicians capable of keeping their words ?
" Tough on Crime tough on the causes of Crime " 13 years of what .
Labour was a total failure in that respect with their slap on the wrist policies.
And the Tories ( The party for law and order. )
Cameron with his reported Hug a Hoodie and appointing that martinet against crime Kenneth Clarke. He was right in one respect .. We are a sick society .
We can't even look to the church for guidance they are too busy covering up for dodgey priests.
Have we any politicians capable of keeping their words ?
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Labours record was rather good, and Blair is keeping quiet because this is the wrong time to crow.
The Metropolitan Police:
// "We have seen a significant drop in crime over the last ten years which represents our continued focus on tackling these offences and bringing criminals to justice." //
http://content.met.po...7892522/1257246745756
Police number rose substantially over the last decade:
// Police numbers continued to rise steadily over the last decade. In 2000 the total police officer strength was just over 124,000. Between 2001 and 2002 officer numbers reached record levels with a 3.1 per cent increase - the largest increase for 26 years. The 140,000 mark was reached in 2004. There were slight decreases and fluctuations in 2006/7, before the numbers picked up again in the latter half of 2008 and by September 2009 there were reported to be 144,833 police officers - an increase of 1.5 per cent on the previous year. //
http://www.politics.c...mbers-and-recruitment
And people convicted and prisoner was the highest ever (2007)
// The prison population now stands at almost 81,500, the highest figure on record and an increase of more than 20,000 in a decade. //
http://www.independen...s-scandal-763219.html
Sadly, all that good work is being undone. The police force is being slashed. Prisoners let out, and we have rioting and looting on our streets.
The Metropolitan Police:
// "We have seen a significant drop in crime over the last ten years which represents our continued focus on tackling these offences and bringing criminals to justice." //
http://content.met.po...7892522/1257246745756
Police number rose substantially over the last decade:
// Police numbers continued to rise steadily over the last decade. In 2000 the total police officer strength was just over 124,000. Between 2001 and 2002 officer numbers reached record levels with a 3.1 per cent increase - the largest increase for 26 years. The 140,000 mark was reached in 2004. There were slight decreases and fluctuations in 2006/7, before the numbers picked up again in the latter half of 2008 and by September 2009 there were reported to be 144,833 police officers - an increase of 1.5 per cent on the previous year. //
http://www.politics.c...mbers-and-recruitment
And people convicted and prisoner was the highest ever (2007)
// The prison population now stands at almost 81,500, the highest figure on record and an increase of more than 20,000 in a decade. //
http://www.independen...s-scandal-763219.html
Sadly, all that good work is being undone. The police force is being slashed. Prisoners let out, and we have rioting and looting on our streets.
-- answer removed --
If Cameron get his way, there will be 1,000 fewer police in London.
http://www.thisislond...nd-100m-budget-axe.do
http://www.thisislond...nd-100m-budget-axe.do
I wish you were right Gromit but " Tough on the causes of crime "
We are now being told that all these areas are areas of deprivation which causes crime . If that is true what happened during those 13 years of
" Tough on the causes of crime " . In that respect they failed .
These areas did not become deprived in the past year . Not even you surely claims that. We can blame the bankers , the dodgey politicians, homo bishops etc. but whatever their crimes they are not responsible for "the causes of crime ", and after 13 years of Labour rule those causes were not cured. Had they been we would not have had the riots.
We are now being told that all these areas are areas of deprivation which causes crime . If that is true what happened during those 13 years of
" Tough on the causes of crime " . In that respect they failed .
These areas did not become deprived in the past year . Not even you surely claims that. We can blame the bankers , the dodgey politicians, homo bishops etc. but whatever their crimes they are not responsible for "the causes of crime ", and after 13 years of Labour rule those causes were not cured. Had they been we would not have had the riots.
A couple of points Gromit the main cuts have not been made yet .
I agree that there is the perception that under theTories the scroungers and benefit parasites will have to work for their living .Time will tell.
You are right Labour did pour money into those areas but in what
manner ? What it did was to bribe people, the benefit system paid out so much that they didn't need to work or commit crimes, they could live on the state .
Why work or commit a crime when Labour will keep increasing the benefits to keep you happy.
In addition the crime rate fell at the same time as the prison population increased. Hardly a coincidense .
Steve.5 I agree Clarke lives in a fantasy world but then so do those of you, like whiskerron , who believe that that life under Callaghan and the winter of discontent was a time of plenty . Even Callaghan , Blair , Brown and Milliband don't believe that . What did Milliband say " We got it wrong ." Yes we did . I say we because I voted for Blair . Who initially after John Major said the right things . Pity it went wrong . Mainly by Brown who started off being prudent but then started throwing money and morgaging our future , that's why he sold off half our gold reserves to pay for his profligacy.
I agree that there is the perception that under theTories the scroungers and benefit parasites will have to work for their living .Time will tell.
You are right Labour did pour money into those areas but in what
manner ? What it did was to bribe people, the benefit system paid out so much that they didn't need to work or commit crimes, they could live on the state .
Why work or commit a crime when Labour will keep increasing the benefits to keep you happy.
In addition the crime rate fell at the same time as the prison population increased. Hardly a coincidense .
Steve.5 I agree Clarke lives in a fantasy world but then so do those of you, like whiskerron , who believe that that life under Callaghan and the winter of discontent was a time of plenty . Even Callaghan , Blair , Brown and Milliband don't believe that . What did Milliband say " We got it wrong ." Yes we did . I say we because I voted for Blair . Who initially after John Major said the right things . Pity it went wrong . Mainly by Brown who started off being prudent but then started throwing money and morgaging our future , that's why he sold off half our gold reserves to pay for his profligacy.
Great answer Gromit . Pity its not true. In fact in London where it all started the numbers have increased under Boris Johnson since he took over from your friend Ken.
Analysis
Full Fact looked back through accounts of the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA) which measured year-on-year total police officer numbers since the financial year 2000-01, when Ken Livingstone became Mayor.
The MPA figures show that, when Mr. Johnson entered office in May 2008, police officer numbers stood at 31,398 (for the 2007-08 financial year). In 2008-09 this number rose by 1,145. In 2009-10 numbers further rose by 717,
Analysis
Full Fact looked back through accounts of the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA) which measured year-on-year total police officer numbers since the financial year 2000-01, when Ken Livingstone became Mayor.
The MPA figures show that, when Mr. Johnson entered office in May 2008, police officer numbers stood at 31,398 (for the 2007-08 financial year). In 2008-09 this number rose by 1,145. In 2009-10 numbers further rose by 717,
That is the point Gromit police numbers aren't the only answer . I'm in favour of more police on the beat as opposed to sitting in offices doing a job which could be done by civilians . As I understand it , it is these purely clerical job which may be cut . You are right increased numbers of police would/should reduce crime but without finding a solution to the deprivation ,which Labour failed to do, we wont get anywhere . You can increase paying out benefits as Labour does but that only put us deeper in debt.
Oh dear modeller, I am surprised you have made such a basic error.
// In 2008-09 this number rose by 1,145// Under a Labour Government
In 2009-10 numbers further rose by 717, // Mostly under a Labour Government
If the last financial year is considered alone, the number of police officers will be seen to have fallen from 33,260 the year before to 32,459, which is the steepest cut in numbers since even Mr. Livingstone came to office in 2000.
Boris Johnsosn failed to point out that numbers since last year have fallen by 801
// In 2008-09 this number rose by 1,145// Under a Labour Government
In 2009-10 numbers further rose by 717, // Mostly under a Labour Government
If the last financial year is considered alone, the number of police officers will be seen to have fallen from 33,260 the year before to 32,459, which is the steepest cut in numbers since even Mr. Livingstone came to office in 2000.
Boris Johnsosn failed to point out that numbers since last year have fallen by 801
There are many reasons for the alleged drop in crime, Gromit, not least the fact that people are less likely to report many crimes because they know they are wasting their time.
An increase in police numbers does not mean an increase in policing. Many more officers are now engaged in non front line activities such as “community liaison”. Furthermore, since 2002 when the Association of Chief Police Officers announced that policing would not be applied equally to all sections of society, many officers have to wait instructions from their superiors before dealing with many incidents. This was manifested by the inaction of many officers in London when the first trouble broke out.
The reason the prison population is at an all time high is because the number of convictions for serious offences is also at an all time high. It has nothing to do with robust sentencing - in fact quite the reverse is true. If the same sentencing policies were in place as in 1950 the prison population would now stand at about 300,000 instead of 80,000.
As for “...cuts to local services, the police as well as very poor job prospects for school/college leavers as undone all the good work.” Perlease! So if the poor little mites had a youth club to go to and the promise of an apprenticeship they would not have undertaken their “shopping with violence” escapade?
Yeah, right. And salmon live in trees and eat pencils!
An increase in police numbers does not mean an increase in policing. Many more officers are now engaged in non front line activities such as “community liaison”. Furthermore, since 2002 when the Association of Chief Police Officers announced that policing would not be applied equally to all sections of society, many officers have to wait instructions from their superiors before dealing with many incidents. This was manifested by the inaction of many officers in London when the first trouble broke out.
The reason the prison population is at an all time high is because the number of convictions for serious offences is also at an all time high. It has nothing to do with robust sentencing - in fact quite the reverse is true. If the same sentencing policies were in place as in 1950 the prison population would now stand at about 300,000 instead of 80,000.
As for “...cuts to local services, the police as well as very poor job prospects for school/college leavers as undone all the good work.” Perlease! So if the poor little mites had a youth club to go to and the promise of an apprenticeship they would not have undertaken their “shopping with violence” escapade?
Yeah, right. And salmon live in trees and eat pencils!
New Judge,
So why are most Conservatives other than the Cabinet calling for the cuts to the Police to be rescinded? Why is the Mayor of London actively campaigning against his own Government? Why are all the opinion polls against cutting the police pist riots?
The Government's position is nothing to do with upholding law and order, it is to do with paying back vast loans we took out to rescue irresponsible banks.
So why are most Conservatives other than the Cabinet calling for the cuts to the Police to be rescinded? Why is the Mayor of London actively campaigning against his own Government? Why are all the opinion polls against cutting the police pist riots?
The Government's position is nothing to do with upholding law and order, it is to do with paying back vast loans we took out to rescue irresponsible banks.
I actually believe, Gromit, that we should increase police numbers – substantially. We can accommodate the extra cost involved quite simply by cutting the Overseas Aid budget to zero (immediately), and by stopping our activities in Libya and Afghanistan (immediately). The troops released could be brought home to form a National Guard that would be available to quell the sort of trouble we saw last week. If the people involved want a war, let them have one.
More money can be found by stopping all immigration (from both within and outside the EU) until all the jobless in the UK have been found positions. A few more billions can be found by dismantling about 80% of the useless “quangos” that suck vast sums of money from the economy. A few examples that spring immediately to mind – “The British Potato Council”; “The Milk Development Council”; “The Westminster Foundation for Democracy”; “The Wine Standards Board”. I could go on (and on and on).
From the money saved we could build a substantial number of prisons and revise the sentencing guidelines to mirror those in force fifty years ago. Any money left over could be used to build “approved schools” where those children who continually disrupt the education of the vast majority of youngsters who want to learn could be sent.
This is not a time for political posturing, point scoring and schoolboy jokes in the playground that is the House of Commons. The reaction of politicians from all parties is pathetic. This country must wake up and realise that it is the stupid liberalism that has prevailed in all of the State’s activities for the past forty years or more that has got us where we are. Children need boundaries ideally set by their parents, and they need to see the consequences of their misbehaviour. If some parents cannot or will not impose discipline on their unruly offspring from an early age the State must step in and do it for them – at an early age.
More money can be found by stopping all immigration (from both within and outside the EU) until all the jobless in the UK have been found positions. A few more billions can be found by dismantling about 80% of the useless “quangos” that suck vast sums of money from the economy. A few examples that spring immediately to mind – “The British Potato Council”; “The Milk Development Council”; “The Westminster Foundation for Democracy”; “The Wine Standards Board”. I could go on (and on and on).
From the money saved we could build a substantial number of prisons and revise the sentencing guidelines to mirror those in force fifty years ago. Any money left over could be used to build “approved schools” where those children who continually disrupt the education of the vast majority of youngsters who want to learn could be sent.
This is not a time for political posturing, point scoring and schoolboy jokes in the playground that is the House of Commons. The reaction of politicians from all parties is pathetic. This country must wake up and realise that it is the stupid liberalism that has prevailed in all of the State’s activities for the past forty years or more that has got us where we are. Children need boundaries ideally set by their parents, and they need to see the consequences of their misbehaviour. If some parents cannot or will not impose discipline on their unruly offspring from an early age the State must step in and do it for them – at an early age.
Ah the right wing's love of violent over-reaction
//If the people involved want a war, let them have one. //
shall we just lock up anyone suspected too?
I mean Internment worked so well in Northern Ireland didn't it.
Thing is I suspect that large amounts of the right wing secretly would like to be a fascist dictator whose word is law and who can hand out arbitary judgement.
Perhaps the fantasy even tempts them into becoming magistrates
But realising dictatorship impossible want to achieve it by proxy, having a "strong" right wing government who would forcibly impose their shared values
Any where close NJ?
//If the people involved want a war, let them have one. //
shall we just lock up anyone suspected too?
I mean Internment worked so well in Northern Ireland didn't it.
Thing is I suspect that large amounts of the right wing secretly would like to be a fascist dictator whose word is law and who can hand out arbitary judgement.
Perhaps the fantasy even tempts them into becoming magistrates
But realising dictatorship impossible want to achieve it by proxy, having a "strong" right wing government who would forcibly impose their shared values
Any where close NJ?
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