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Politics8 mins ago
Referendum on Europe?
23 Answers
http://www.thisislond...call-eu-referendum.do
A 100,000-name petition for a referendum on the EU is to delivered to No.10 Downing Street.delivered.
David Cameron was reported to have said,
"We are in Europe, we have got to make it work for us."
How is giving the £1.4bn train contract,to Germany's Siemens, making it work for us?
A 100,000-name petition for a referendum on the EU is to delivered to No.10 Downing Street.delivered.
David Cameron was reported to have said,
"We are in Europe, we have got to make it work for us."
How is giving the £1.4bn train contract,to Germany's Siemens, making it work for us?
Answers
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Now that we can all sign a petition on line it is now possible to get the required 100k names, whereas in the past they all had to be collected by hand and delivered to number 10.
If you want to sign a petition on any subject they are all available on line for you to choose . Here is the site :http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/.
Once delivered the government is required to act on it but I bet our mealy mouthed leaders will try to get out of it , and if they do give us a referendum I bet they will word it in such a way as to make it pretty worthless . When Blair was in charge he wanted to be the first president of the EU so he was /is prepared to betray us so he can play G
If you want to sign a petition on any subject they are all available on line for you to choose . Here is the site :http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/.
Once delivered the government is required to act on it but I bet our mealy mouthed leaders will try to get out of it , and if they do give us a referendum I bet they will word it in such a way as to make it pretty worthless . When Blair was in charge he wanted to be the first president of the EU so he was /is prepared to betray us so he can play G
All this talk about changing the EU from within is rubbish . There are 27 members and all have to agree to any change . Can you see that happening ? Will France stop feather bedding their inefficient farmers ?
The only person who got anything out of the EU was Maggie and she just said " It's our money and we wont pay ." It was a simple statement and they knew she meant it. It worked until Blair gave half of it back again. However even she didn't get any change in the EU regulations and the CAP. W
2
The only person who got anything out of the EU was Maggie and she just said " It's our money and we wont pay ." It was a simple statement and they knew she meant it. It worked until Blair gave half of it back again. However even she didn't get any change in the EU regulations and the CAP. W
2
What it has to do with being in Europe, Mark, is that because of EU regulations such contracts MUST be offered for tender across Europe and the Government (as the client) MUST consider the most competitive (i.e. the cheapest) tender as the “preferred bidder”.
As it happens, the Bombardier tender was probably not the best deal, but that is not the point. Because of EU tendering regulations there was no choice.
The “e-Petitions” nonsense is a farce. Anybody who thinks it will prompt a debate on anything the government does not want aired is deluding themselves. In particular with relation to Europe none of the main parties would ever countenance the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, or even a Parliamentary debate (let alone a referendum) on the subject. The politicians have too great a personal interest in maintaining the status quo. Mr Clegg is very likely to lose his seat at the next General Election. The present “High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy” (the EU’s “Foreign Minister”) is particularly unpopular and said to be somewhat inept. Mr. Clegg has been more or less guaranteed to be appointed to this post (at a salary not unadjacent to £330k) should his demise in Sheffield Hallam be confirmed. Is Mr. Clegg – who has already enjoyed considerably agreeable employment on the EU Gravy Train before being elevated beyond his wildest dreams to Deputy PM - going to support the UK’s withdrawal from the EU should the electorate decide that it should?
Answers on a postcard please,
As it happens, the Bombardier tender was probably not the best deal, but that is not the point. Because of EU tendering regulations there was no choice.
The “e-Petitions” nonsense is a farce. Anybody who thinks it will prompt a debate on anything the government does not want aired is deluding themselves. In particular with relation to Europe none of the main parties would ever countenance the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, or even a Parliamentary debate (let alone a referendum) on the subject. The politicians have too great a personal interest in maintaining the status quo. Mr Clegg is very likely to lose his seat at the next General Election. The present “High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy” (the EU’s “Foreign Minister”) is particularly unpopular and said to be somewhat inept. Mr. Clegg has been more or less guaranteed to be appointed to this post (at a salary not unadjacent to £330k) should his demise in Sheffield Hallam be confirmed. Is Mr. Clegg – who has already enjoyed considerably agreeable employment on the EU Gravy Train before being elevated beyond his wildest dreams to Deputy PM - going to support the UK’s withdrawal from the EU should the electorate decide that it should?
Answers on a postcard please,
Quite true Gromit.
But in the last 35 years the "Common Market" (as it then was and as the electorate were fooled into believing) has changed beyond recognition. The question was actually "DO YOU THINK THE UNITED KINGDOM SHOULD STAY IN THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY (THE COMMON MARKET)?" and the response was 67% in favour.
I would wager the answer would be very different today and that's why politicians of all persuasions are terrified to ask the question. They are not interested in the electorate's wishes.
But in the last 35 years the "Common Market" (as it then was and as the electorate were fooled into believing) has changed beyond recognition. The question was actually "DO YOU THINK THE UNITED KINGDOM SHOULD STAY IN THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY (THE COMMON MARKET)?" and the response was 67% in favour.
I would wager the answer would be very different today and that's why politicians of all persuasions are terrified to ask the question. They are not interested in the electorate's wishes.
"as it then was and as the electorate were fooled into believing"
I recognise the rest of your points about the EC changing into something quite different (or rather to be more accurate having something quite different grow out of it as the EC aspect/functions are all still there so far as I can tell), but this comment seems to imply that the EC was not what it said it was at the time of the referendum. Forgive me if I'm reading into your post too much, NJ, but this implication smacks of something distastefully like conspiracy theory - and to be quite frank with you I think you're smarter than that.
I also find the idea of an electorate being 'fooled into' something a bit fishy, if I'm honest. Not that it's impossible, exactly, I just think it's so unlikely that citing it can be a little bit intellectually lazy. I don't view the 1975 results as foolish, personally, but theoretically if the electorate makes foolish decisions, then I don't believe it's because they're 'fooled' into making them - I think the reason is that the electorate are or can be foolish.
I recognise the rest of your points about the EC changing into something quite different (or rather to be more accurate having something quite different grow out of it as the EC aspect/functions are all still there so far as I can tell), but this comment seems to imply that the EC was not what it said it was at the time of the referendum. Forgive me if I'm reading into your post too much, NJ, but this implication smacks of something distastefully like conspiracy theory - and to be quite frank with you I think you're smarter than that.
I also find the idea of an electorate being 'fooled into' something a bit fishy, if I'm honest. Not that it's impossible, exactly, I just think it's so unlikely that citing it can be a little bit intellectually lazy. I don't view the 1975 results as foolish, personally, but theoretically if the electorate makes foolish decisions, then I don't believe it's because they're 'fooled' into making them - I think the reason is that the electorate are or can be foolish.
MarkRae
/// What does that have to do with our being in Europe...? ///
The excuse is that it is the EU rules that the contract has to go to the cheapest tender, thus making it a better deal for their EU members.
The problem is that taking into account the job losses not only to Bombardier but all the support companies.
/// What does that have to do with our being in Europe...? ///
The excuse is that it is the EU rules that the contract has to go to the cheapest tender, thus making it a better deal for their EU members.
The problem is that taking into account the job losses not only to Bombardier but all the support companies.
Gromit
/// Bombardier is not a British company. It employs 5,000 in the
UK.///
/// In a competetive tender Siemens won. Get over it. ///
A little out in your figures Gromit, but regardless of the fact that Bombardier is not a British company, these are British jobs, which are going to cause heartbreak to many, it may be alright for you to say "get over it" when it's not your job on the line.
But then when have you ever bothered about anything or anyone British?
/// Bombardier is not a British company. It employs 5,000 in the
UK.///
/// In a competetive tender Siemens won. Get over it. ///
A little out in your figures Gromit, but regardless of the fact that Bombardier is not a British company, these are British jobs, which are going to cause heartbreak to many, it may be alright for you to say "get over it" when it's not your job on the line.
But then when have you ever bothered about anything or anyone British?
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