Tell us something we didn't already know.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....le-really-wisdom.html

Throughout the ages human communities have always had 'The Elders' and these are the ones who make all the decisions and who the youngsters go to for advice.

Take for example the baby faced politicians we haver now, no wonder we are in such a mess.

[jake-the-peg]

And throughout the ages we have remained backwards, uneducated conservative cultures terrified of change.

Mankind's greatest advances have only come in civilisations where they have rejected the fear of the new embodied by the elders and embraced change.

Your argument is patently flawed!

[DTCwordfan]

What crap you unearth from the Mail, AOG

William Pitt the Younger (28 May 1759 – 23 January 1806) heard of him perhaps? . He became the youngest Prime Minister (though not the term at the time) in 1783 at the age of 24.................baby face I guess back then? Or maybe the Daily Mail had a bad reporting day back then?

[Old_Geezer]

Ah you whippersnappers can protest all your like. We know that if wisdom comes it comes with experience, and thus age ;-)

Change can be good, but it is not automatically good. Too much change for change's sake these days, I suspect to enhance someone's CV and thus career somewhere.

[emmie]

I'm glad someone mentioned William Pitt the younger, it's not so much the age, but what they do with the time they have in office.

[anotheoldgit]

DTcrosswordfan

Ignoring your rather vulgar remark.

You delved into the history books to find an example of a young person who became the Prime Minister in 1783 at the age of 24, to somehow support your very weak argument.

Not good enough I'm afraid, I don't have to go back to a time neither of us can remember, (or anyone else for that matter) I can give a better example to prove my argument, one who I can at least remember during my lifetime.

I refer of course to Winston Spencer Churchill (Good old Winnie)

Prime Minister at the beginning of WW2 at the age of 66 and aged 71 when it ended.

He then returned once again as Prime Minister from 1952, (aged 77) to 1955, (aged 81).

Incidentally he was still the MP for Woodford at the age of 90.

[emmie]

What did the country do to Winston Churchill when war ended, promptly ousted him. I think before you jump down my throat, he was the best Prime Minister the country ever had, but you don't have to be an elder statesman to make sound judgements.

[modeller]

It was the elders that gave us the bible and the enforcing of it. It gave them power over the gullible. It still does.

[anotheoldgit]

em10

"Jump down your throat" as if I would, any friend of 'Winnie' is a friend of mine.

/// but you don't have to be an elder statesman to make sound judgements. ///

No, but it helps.

[DTCwordfan]

So the fact that a 24 year old became PM is irrelevant, next thing you will be saying is that he didn't exist. You must have been a statistician for the way you pervert and manipulate information.

[DTCwordfan]

the youngest Methodist Rev in the UK is 22 (Cockermouth), the youngest CoE Vicar 22, the youngest Rabbi 21 in Glagow, Iman 22 in Bradford, Catholic Father 24.

The point is that wisdom can sit with young people who are often better for other youngsters to go to for advice and it is more relevant and pertinent.

I am not devaluing the value of some elderly folk - and I stress the word some, as many elderly folk become dogmatic and inflexible to any concept of change in their latter years...... Wisdom, the ability to communicate can occur at any age - as with William Pitt (Younger) and my cited examples (want a list at bishop equivalent level?.......it is the attitude that is most important, not age, and, as jake has said, elders councils have often repressed change.

[DTCwordfan]

And I certainly wouldn't come to you for advice as a youngster, AOG, your views are too extreme.

[andy-hughes]

The danger of the argument put forward is to confuse 'experience' with 'wisdom'.

We all aquire experience simply by living our lives and learning lessons as we go along, and extend our ability to think beyond ourselves and our immediate future.

To suggest that wisdom is aquired at an equal rate, and by everyone, simply by living to an older age, is farcical.

There are a large number of old people who have learned nothing from their time on earth, and a large number of young people who have learned far more than people twice their age.

Wisdom is a combination of intelligence, willingness to learn and apply knowledge, and a deep seated ability to see all points of view.

Experience is gained by living in the world, and not necessarily understanding anything that has happened, ever.

The two are poles apart, and the difference is very very important.

As you are advised regularly AOG - being an older citizen does not convey the automatic right to assume that your version of events, or your opinion thereof, is the definitive version. Experience is not wisdom.

[modeller]

em // he was the best Prime Minister the country ever had, //
That may be true up to a point. He was an exellent War Leader but he didn't shine in 52 and the fact he was an MP at the age of 90 is more credit to his electorate than to his ability. I would also suggest neither he nor Rooselvelt were a match for Stalin . He gave nothing away. Thats why Berlin was deep inside East Germany and we had to get R

[boxtops]

I'd like to see their research questionnaire, and how they selected the people they researched.

[modeller]

cont Russian permission to enter .As you know they prevented us from going there by road and we had the Berlin Air Lift.
Churchill was a man of his time but he didn't have to govern as does a peacetime PM. he had to inspire which he did brilliantly.

[JonnyBoy12]

"Young men make rash judges, poor diplomats and great designers".

Can anyone tell me where I get this quote from, apart from a car advert, that is?

[modeller]

I don't think you can have wisdom without experience . I cringe when I think of what I did or failed to do in my twenties.

[anotheoldgit]

DTcrosswordfan

/// And I certainly wouldn't come to you for advice as a youngster, AOG, your views are too extreme. ///

Not extreme, just different from the rest of the flock.

Incidentally your Avatar is most appropriate.

[naomi24]

AOG, why do you begin your question with 'Throughout the ages....', go on to sing the praises of Churchill, and then admonish DT for mentioning history? Experience of life brings knowledge, but knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing, so is it rational to assume that with knowledge comes wisdom? I think not.

Dare I mention Alexander the Great?

[Kromovaracun]

I don't doubt that the research mentioned in the article is valid, personally. What I do find odd is how the Mail doesn't go very far to differentiate between types of decision-making (pretty much the only distinction it makes is short term v long term benefit). This is something that professional psychologists (i.e. the researchers) would be far more detailed in breaking down - and it hints that this was the case in the video. So I'm pretty sure that older people by and large tend towards making certain kinds of decisions better than younger people, but younger people will also make certain kinds of decisions better than elders. But I accept that I'm pretty much juggling with words here, my objection isn't that sharp.

My other one is though. I have a problem with how AOG appears to have interpreted this research. For instance, the research does not claim that older people are immune to any other form of psychological influence - but AOG seems to ignore this fact in his conclusions. So according to AOG, this research indicates that older people make better politicians because they are better at making long-term decisions. But then ignores the fact that they have just as strong a tendency to make long-term decisions within the framework they were brought up in - and there is strong electoral evidence that a general trend among older voters is toward being more conservative and distrustful of change (I emphasise this is just a tendency - I remember in another thread the offence this caused some more progressive elder ABers).

The fact of being better able to make long-term decisions doesn't grant you some magical ability to access the transcendent truth of what you should do in government policy - in that field, you're just as susceptible to the same biases as everyone else regardless of the fact that you might think differently.