Housing Swap

[magicbeatle]

My wife and I have found the perfect Council swap. We live in a big 3 bed Flat in East London. We have 1 bedroom unused, lots of cupboard space a balcony and a massive Kitchen. Its really too big for us, and a Family with kids would benefit more out of it. Our own kids have just left home, so we decided to swap to a smaller place in North London to be nearer work. The couple we are swapping with have 3 young children. Two boys and a girl. They have a Two bedroom flat with a tiny Kitchen, no Balcony and no Cupboard space. Hwever, it will do us because of its location. Their children have the bedrooms, while mum and dad sleep in the living room. One of the boys is ill, and has to have special food prepared for him. He also has his own Social worker. Needless to say, they are struggling. They love our place, and want to swap. It would be ideal for them, and would solve all their problems. They have been trying to swap for 3 years, but always get turned down because of the tiny Kitchen. We are the only ones who dont care about this. If we swap, everyones happy. We put in the forms with Camden Council, and they turned it down. They said my wife and I do not need another bedroom, as we have no kids living with us. The fact is, we are down-sizing from 3 bedrooms to 2. And we do need two, as my wife suffers from deppresion and often cant sleep. She also suffers from other ailments and gets Dissability living allowance. I have to sleep in 1 of the other bedrooms most nights. The other thing is, by turning us down, they are also trapping the other couple in their Flat possibly for good, as they would now not only have to find a couple who wanted to downsize to a smaller Flat with a tiny Kitchen, that couple would also have to have kids! They dont hold much chance. When they told their childs Social worker, she went mad and phoned Camden council, shouting at them. Camden council relented, and said they would let the swap go ahead if my wife obtained copies of her full medical records as proof as to why we need 2 bedrooms. We said no problem. (how wrong we were!) We went to our GP, and he said no. He said he has to have a formal request from Camden Council if they want copies of them. Weve sent a letter to Camden Council explaining this. However, Camden council are unhelpful as they dont want the swap to go ahead anyway, and I cant see them requesting this and we will be denied. This is so unfair! No one wins in this situation. Any ideas?

[chelle7272]

can't you ask for a copy of the records for yourselves, then take a copy for the council? It may cost you though.

[China Doll]

You can request the medical records yourself and provide them to Camden Council. You will probably have to pay a fee. The GP was correct in that there has to be a formal request for notes (regardless if you're the patient or not). I have patients who want their entire medical notes and they have to request in writing, have the consultant agree and then pay a fee for the administration (photocopying the notes). If you offically requested them and paid the fee then I think it would be up to you who you gave them to.

[Canary42]

Some suggestions :-

1. Keep badgering Camden Council, persistently.
2. Get other couple to do the same
3. Get a more sympathetic GP
4. Write to your MP (copy to Camden)
5. Contact local paper.
6. Never give up (a pain I know, but nothing ventured nothing won)

Good luck

[magicbeatle]

We asked them for my wife Medical records. They said they would not give them to her as they knew what it was for. They said it was against policy to get involved with housing issues. We argued for 3 days, my wife even breking down in tears in front of them. They said the code of practice is the same with every GP in the east end.

[China Doll]

http://www.nhs.uk/chq...=68&subcategoryid=160

[magicbeatle]

Thank you everyone. Thanks for the link China Doll. Will look into this. We are thinking about contacting our Local MP, and also the papers too. Also, Citizens Advice. We wont give up until weve exhausted every avenue. At a time when London is over populated and there is a housing shortage, you would think Councils would do everything they can to help swaps like this.

[China Doll]

Don't get too hung up on it being the councils fault. They do have to make sure that you do need 2 bedrooms as part of their own policy and it's not their fault that the GP is being a bit of a pain in the proverbial. Concentrate on the GP first as I've not heard of a GP not releasing medical records for the reason you stated (ie that they know what they're going to be used for). Once you have the medical records, you can probably satisfy everyone.

[magicbeatle]

Thanks China Doll. I'll post on here the outcome of this.

[lcg]

it is absolute crap that a gp can't support or provide documentation for housing issues, particularly as it is related to your wife's health. try seeing all the other gp's in the practice to see if one will do that for you instead.

failing that, you are entitled to see and have copies of your medical records - it is enshrined in nhs policy (chinadoll provides the link) and it is obviously relevant business if you regularly use the second bedroom.

your housing department should also be assisting you in this (they are just being lazy), so why don't you try writing a letter detailing your needs to the gp, make an appointment at housing and ask them to co-sign or stamp the letter and forward it to get the information from your gp.

you could get a solicitor to oversee the process which would cost you a little, but may be worth doing. the cab is definitely a good idea and if your wife has any mental health workers involved in her care (psychiatrist, cpn etc.) they could possibly assist. also try to find a local branch of mind (a mental health charity) for an advocate to get involved on your wife's behalf.

complain formally to your gp surgery in writing outling all the events that have taken place - the gp should be supporting you and has blatantly refused your right to medical records which are both serious matters for your wife, her health and trust in the medical practice.

keep on at all parties (politely and reasonably) to ensure they are giving you your entitled standards of care and honest information, ensuring you make records of all contact - who you talk to/write to/ dates/times /main comments - as this will provide further evidence that they are failing in their duty of care for your wife. you MUST do this or they may try to say you are rude, harrassing them or some other excuse not to get involved.

don't be disheartened - bureaucracy often fails and people don't always know how to do their jobs properly and sometimes they just can't be bothered. good luck in your efforts and keep us updated - we may be able to help and support you along the way. wish your wife all the best too. elsie x

[magicbeatle]

Thank you Elsie. That was my Nan's name by the way. I do miss her. I will do everything you said, and will keep you all posted. I appreciate all your help. Thanks again. Del

[magicbeatle]

One last Question. If Camden Council do turn us down in the meantime, (with no Medical records that will probably be the case) could we make a fresh Coucil swap claim when we do recieve the proper documents? Thanks.

[China Doll]

Have you looked to see if they have an appeal process? Maybe it could be done that way.

[magicbeatle]

Just as we expected, Camden council turned us down as we never had the medical records. However, after talking to some of you on here, we went back up to the Doctors and demanded my wifes records. We will have to pay £50, but they should be ready on Tuesday. The other thing is, when my wife spoke to the woman at Camden Council and asked for the reason we were turned down, (Apart from the lack of Medical Records) she told my wife that we do not need another bedroom as my wife dosent need a wheelchair. Thats discrimination! People with mental health problems surely have the same rights as those with physical disabilities? Anyway, she has an interview with 'Mind' on Monday. If they can give her a letter stating stating this, then that should add weight to the Medical Records.

[chelle7272]

i'm glad you're able to start getting things sorted, good luck and keep us posted

[China Doll]

I don't mean to sound horrible but it is not discrimination at all. Having a mental health problem that means you have to have a wheelchair is not the same as perhaps having a spinal injury or some such obvious condition and I can see why Camden Council have said this. One of my consultants works with people with chronic fatigue, and quite a few have mobility issues without a specific medical cause. However she would be able to write (if needed) to a school or council to explain they have a chronic condition which currently means they have mobility issues so that which is essentially what Camden would need MIND to do. I know it may sound a bit mean but this is correct procedure.

Hang on in there.

[magicbeatle]

Thanks Chelle, will do. Sorry China Doll. Didnt quite understand what you meant?

[China Doll]

When you mentioned about the council saying you don't need two bedrooms as your wife doesn't need a wheelchair, you said it was discrimination and I was just answering in relation to that.

Not saying that your wife doesn't need a wheelchair, just that if the reasons aren't obvious or for mental health reasons then the council will question it but letters from doctor/professionals often go a long way to clearing this up was my point.

[magicbeatle]

ok, Cheers. Hopefully a letter from 'Mind' will make a difference. I also suffer myself from 'Plantar Fasciitis' which is a foot condition which is another reason I often have to sleep in another bedroom as I often have to wear a foot split. Dont know if that would make a difference too. However, we havent mentioned this to Camden.

[China Doll]

I have the same condition as you, and can categorically state that NO council would look at me twice with the symptoms I have so I would advise that you also get a letter from whoever is treating you explaining how severe your Plantar Fasciitis is and what effect it has on your sleep etc because this is could be variable, e.g. my symptons do not effect me at night and cause not problems to my other half and him sleeping whereas maybe yours do. It might make no difference at all but there is no harm in asking.

[magicbeatle]

Thanks China Doll.