Britain has let down young people?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph....-says-Archbishop.html

/// Rioters who took part in the summer’s unrest were expressing “frustrations” felt by many young people, the Archbishop of Canterbury says today. ///

I am fed-up with all these type of excuses being made, to somehow neutralise the seriousness of the rioting and looting that took place.

What about the 'frustrations' felt by the elderly, who struggle to keep their homes warm, worry about the yearly increases in their food and household bills, and then the additional worry that at the end of their days, they may have to sell the house that they have spent all their working life paying for, so as to pay for their care.

Frustrations? these are real frustrations, perhaps while some are still healthy enough, they should also give this rioting and looting a try?

No Dr Williams get it right, 'Britain has let down old people'.

[jomifl]

jno.. not only in the UK, a friend's teenage daughter here in France was docked a mark in an English lesson for writing 'it is' instead of 'it's' because the English apparently do not use 'it is'. OK it wasn't university but it is fairly basic.

[New Judge]

“There have always been children leaving school who could not read adequately or spell.”

Yes, but not in the huge numbers we see now, Gromit. I left primary school more than fifty years ago. I lived in a predominantly working class area and most of my class-mates had parents who worked in either unskilled or semi-skilled trades. Few that I can recall were “professionals”. However, nobody but nobody left my primary school (and others around the area) unable to read, write and undertake basic arithmetic. I know of nobody of my age and older who cannot do likewise. Of course I’m sure there are some, but they are exceptional and hard to find.

Employers today may not provide the support that many did in the past. Times have changed. But no employer should be expected to teach sixteen year olds to read and write. A 16% failure rate means that almost 100,000 people are leaving school annually without the most basic of life’s necessary skills. They have been let down but it is not easy to say by whom.

[tamborine]

National companies sending their admin to 3rd world doesn't help our home employment.

[Khandro]

jomifl, your friends daughter should point out to her teacher that Its is the possessive form of the pronoun it and is correctly written without an apostrophe. It should not be confused with the contraction it's (for it is or it has), which should always have an apostrophe, the contraction, as you say, is optional though.

[Gromit]

You are wrong New Judge. The levels of were the same then, as they are now.

// "Standards of reading have remained more or less the same over a very long time - since the 1950s. //

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7073275.stm

Of course the pipulation has risen, but the per centage of those failing is the same.

[Gromit]

In a thread about literacy, I really should avoud typos. I am not the Policeman in Allo, Allo, honest.

[Gromit]

Arrrgh!

Avoid typos! Damn Apple Touch keypad.

[New Judge]

Well I don't know where the 100,000 of the same age as me and who are unable to read and write all are, Gromit, because I don't know of any. Try finding a 60-year old illiterate. You may find one or two if you look hard emough. Try finding a 16year old illiterate. You might not have to walk to the end of your road.

[Kromovaracun]

"I don't know of any."

That doesn't mean they don't exist, though, does it? I don't know and have never knowingly met any 16-25 year olds who were illiterate, but it would be pretty foolish of me to deny their existence.

[Gromit]

Perhaps this lady is a classmate of yours New Judge?

http://www.getwokingh..._for_learning_to_read

Adult literacy classes are nothing new. They have been around since the 60s which means there was a problem then.

[Gromit]

New Judge

You may rember this from 36 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.o..._the_Move_(TV_series)

It was made for a reason.

[anotheoldgit]

Not a very good record, and it seems the cause of much of our troubles.

http://www.dailymail....ivilised-society.html

/// White boys from low-income families perform worst: 63 per cent are unable to read and write properly at 14 (compared with 43 per cent of white girls from a similar background).///

/// Black working- class boys do not do much better: at age 14, 54 per cent cannot read or write properly. ///

/// Between 2000 and 2007, almost four million pupils left school without gaining the basic qualifications of five good GCSEs, including English and maths. Nearly a million pupils left with less than five GCSEs of any grade. ///

/// Unlike previous generations, the boys who spill out onto our streets don't quickly grow out of delinquent behaviour. ///

[Gromit]

AOG

That is not 63% of all boys leaving school, it is working class boys. Without knowing what number or % of children who are classed as working class, those figures are meaningless.

[venator]

The slackening of standards in society generally is reflected in our schools.

For instance, at one time, schools taught mathematics and covered a wide syllabus, to equip pupils for life.

Now they teach " Let's look at the ways in which we use numbers", and how to pass an exam.

[anotheoldgit]

I fail to agree Gromit, since most working class boys (if not all) attend state comprehensive schools, the figure of 63% of pupils leaving such schools unable to read and write properly, is hardly meaningless.

[Gromit]

Good grief AOG,

Not everyone (and possibly not even a majority) attending state schools are working class. Where do you think the middle class (the majority) of pupils attend schools? And it does not say 63% of boys leaving state schools, it says 63% of working class boys.

And if it isn't meaningless, please tell me how many boys are working class and what figure is 63% of that total. And I do not agree with your assumption that all the 100,000 children who leave school without being able to read and write adequately are ALL working class.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Where do you think the middle class (the majority) of pupils attend schools? ///

Either private schools or they either live or move to the catchment areas of the better run schools or academies.

[Gromit]

You suggest that middle class pupils go to private schools. Only 6.5% of school children attend private schools. That seems to suggest that there are a very small number of middle class pupils, with working class and Upper class pupils accounting for the remaining 93.5%. That has got to be completely wrong.

[andy-hughes]

I tend not to listen to bishops, or any clergy's opinions.

I am sure their views are valid for the world they live in, but since that is not the world that I live in, they have no relevence for me

[New Judge]

I’m not saying there are no 60-year old illiterate people. Of course there are and the examples you quote are among them. What I am saying is that they do not exist in the huge numbers that can be found among much younger adults.

Some of the work that I do involves meeting people of all ages and from all social classes. All are asked to read some simple documents as part of that work, many are also required to write a small amount. I meet about 200-300 people per year whilst doing this work. I rarely, if ever, encounter a person aged above about 50 who is what I might describe as “illiterate” (that is, cannot read a simple document and write a few words). Conversely I come across large numbers (probably at least one in ten) of young people who have not mastered these basic skills.

Not very scientific and very anecdotal, I know, but a good guide as far as I am concerned. It’s always easy to find statistics to support a particular contention, so look at the table on page 11 of this document:

http://www.parliament...rch/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

“Approximately 100,000 school leavers (16%) leave school every year unable to read, write and spell adequately for the demands of daily life.”


“In 1974, around 2 million adults (6% of the population) had insufficient literacy skills to cope with everyday life.”

Yes, these two measures are different and of course 10% of people in 1974 could have improved their literacy skills since leaving school, but it seems unlikely. There are further difficulties in making comparisons over a long period because the definition of “literacy” has changed considerably. So it really comes down to anecdotes and experience and a far smaller proportion of sixty year olds I encounter are illiterate when compared to those who are much younger.