Government crackdown on school absentees.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....-including-fines.html

While I agree something should be done about truancy, I am not sure what I think about parents taking their children out of school to take advantage of cheap holidays abroad.

Could the government crack down on holiday firms for increasing their prices during school breaks?

[joko]

another angle to this is, most kids who go off the rails, when asked why, will answer with things like - i was bored, i hate it round here, lifes crap, nothing to do, nowhere to go, etc and also some would say parents never did stuff with us, never took us anywhere, etc
they are bombarded with images of a better life, with how the other half live, other kids going off on holidays, and many of them wont think they should work harder in school to get that stuff, they will just steal it or get frustrated and act up...and still feel hard done by for having a crap childhood

holidays show them new places, new adventures, new people, new cultures, and above all fun- the type that doesn't involves hanging about in parks with their mates, or being stuck in the house with an xbox

many are desperate to get away from schools

i was lucky my parents could afford to take holidays at any time of year, but many couldnt, and had no choice but to go at the cheap time.

[joko]

on a similar note, although i dont agree with sending teenage criminals off on costly fancy holidays abroad, i can see the logic in there.... that these holidays are good for morale, for the kid souls they teach the kids a new way, team building to have good clean fun - i assume it has some benefits or they wouldnt do it
I would support stuff like camping trips and maybe pontins or something.

but this applies to good kids too...they may not be naughty but they can feel down, and disheartened and bored...all kids need to be allowed to have these sorts of rewards once a year

[joko]

i think some are speaking from a clinical, legal and law-abiding standpoint, whereas myself and a few others are viewing from a family and humanitarian point of view.

most parents have kids for love and to give them a good happy life - that comes before strict adherence to any non essential law...and forcing them into 11 years of boring schoolwork with no reprieve does not make for a happy kid.

[DaisyNonna]

New Judge. Rubbish!

[NOX]

I couldn't agree more Joko, I mentor young people who have not had easy starts and have become involved with drugs, alcohol and crime, often they have never seen anywhere other than the sinkhole they were forced to grow up in. Show someone some relaxation and a better way to live and it's amazing how quickly you see a chance in someone. My wife took one lad to Cannes for the film festival because he'd got a genuine interest in film which his school never fostered, never attempted to do anything with, simply wrote him off as a trouble causer, excluded him, he lost any interest in trying to learn and went a bad way. He went back to college and eventually to Goldsmiths and is now doing well for himself.
It's no-one business but kid's parent how or where they go on holiday- we really don't need a nanny state that's so bad at realising what people need.

[NOX]

...and Daisy- succinctly put:)

[sunny-dave]

I have no difficulty with the "Quality Family Time doing something Vaguely Cultural" reasoning ...

... but my gut feeling is that most of the absentees will be taken somewhere that does Full English Breakfasts and dumped in the kids club whilst the parents get Fosterised.

OK - so I'm exaggerating for effect - but you see my point?

[jno]

here are some of the UK's educational rankings (Pisa tests 15-year-olds internationally)

http://en.wikipedia.o...udent_Assessment#2009

For a developed country, they're pretty poor. Way behind Slovenia in maths, NZ in science, Liechtenstein in reading...

I don't blame the government for trying to raise standards and trying to get kids into schools. Whether there should be provision for taking time out for holidays is one of many questions, but I don't object to a "nanny state" trying to produce a better educated population.

[DaisyNonna]

Ever thought of the teacher who might like to take his/her family abroad during term time?

[jno]

ah, you weren't there when I started typing, dave, but yes, I do see your point. The parents who haven't taught their kids to use the toilet before they start at school are not necessarily going to provide them with informative holidays. Much as I support parents' rights to make decisions about their kids' lives, I think kids also have a right to get the best education they can.

[NOX]

But imagine that kids take 2 week holiday per year during term time, that's actually 10 school days per year, times that by lets say 10 because they'll do it most years- are you seriously trying to tell me that 50 missed days of school in a ten year period is going to do, well, anything at all really? It just seems like such a huge storm in a teacup by those who seem to enjoy inflincting their ideas on everyone else's family life ( but yes I do get your point about chavvy holidays to Benidorm, and the kids being dumped in the kids club etc, however how can you avoid that, term time or not)?

[joko]

jno, i agree, there does need to be some level of authority when it comes to unauthorised absences - ie, truancy, but family holidays are authorised and nothing to do with kids skiving and running to the park all day.

there is more to learn in life than schoolwork...almost their entire childhood is taken up with schoolwork.

the level of education of many kids these days is terrible - even with this rule in place so i dont see how it can be said that 2 weeks a year off is the cause of their educational decline.
the fact is, many kids are so utterly miserable and hate school with a passion, that no amount of force will make them learn more...i myself hated school, and was naughty...but when i left i decided what i wanted to learn, went to college, and now have all sorts of qualifications and work in film and TV - because i WANTED to do it... if my school had refused to allow us our holidays, id have just hated them even more and been even naughtier - in anger an frustration.

obviously of the parents of well off pupil are wanting to take them off places 3-4-5 times a year then yes i suppose the line has to be drawn, but for most its once a year and something they look forward to all year.
memories are important.

[New Judge]

Thanks for your succinct and extremely eloquent contribution, DaisyNonna. Most helpful.

Have I ever thought about the teacher who wanted to take his family abroad during term time? Er.... No. As far as I am aware most people joining the teaching profession know that their holidays will be restricted to the fourteen weeks or so that they are not required to attend school. Still, perhaps as well as allowing the children to come and go as they please, we’ll allow the teachers to do likewise.

Many of the contributions here tend to centre around one child taking one holiday. But as things stand schools have many children taking holidays throughout the term and it is not just a case of one of them being given coursework to catch up at home (which of course they will do religiously - yeah right). The effect on the entire class is substantial. I will risk repeating myself and incurring the wrath of NOX, but nobody seems to have addressed the issue of the impression these absences give to other pupils. Whilst “authorised” absences are indeed nothing to do with “...kids skiving and running to the park all day” children do not discriminate between different types of absence. They will feel left out if their parents are diligent enough not to take them out of school and may well decide themselves to take a few days off to enrich their cultural experiences by making a nuisance of themselves in the local shopping mall.

“almost their entire childhood is taken up with schoolwork.” No it’s not. As I have said, only just over half of it (after age 5) is.

“It's no-one business but kid's parent how or where they go on holiday”. It certainly is nobody’s business how or where. But when certainly is. Organised education must address the needs of all the pupils and disruption caused by unnecessary pupil absences (I won’t even comment on teacher absences) affects everybody. That’s why the Education Secretary is trying to address the problem.

I really won’t add any more !

[bigbadmarty]

Sunny Dave are you saying the kids should join the " Groovy gang " like Rodney Trotter ?

[whiskeryron]

I can't see why schools have to close for 6 weeks in the summer time, surely it's possible for some clever person to come up with some sort of idea of spreading the school year out in some other order so that perhaps the kids have 2 weeks summer break & more at other times of the year.

Ron

[joko]

i am gobsmacked that you would think truancy revolves around being jealous of others being absent.

kids are bright enough (not that you need to bright to understand this) to understand that a family holiday is just that, and not the same as skiving, truancy or the notion that theyre 'getting away with something'.

when i was at school i can honestly say i not only didnt care who was absent, i was largely unaware of the family holidays of other pupils, except perhaps occasionally of my closest mates - and their absence certainly didnt upset me, make me jealous or make me was to play truant either - i also don't recall many people asking me about my holidays, or being mean to for it or appearing in some way bothered by it.... in fact the only time most noticed was when they reappeared and had a tan...and any that did comment would only have said stuff like 'ooh where have you been' - kids don't care.

if by some remote chance some kids were influenced by this - it is still not enough of a reason to ban term time holidays... if a kid wants to truant they will do it...kids dont become truants because a classmate has gone on holiday.

what an utterly ridiculous notion...i am beginning to wonder if you even remember being a kid yourself.... would you have felt that way?
if your answer is yes it says rather more about you than it does about kids in general...

[New Judge]

I won't comment any more, joko, as promised. But I will answer your question.

Yes I do remember being at school. When I was there neither my primary school nor my secondary school permitted "authorised absences" for holidays. This was commonplace and nobody in either of my schools, as far as I can recall, went on holiday in term time. This was also true of other schools nearby which my friends attended. All our parents knew this and the idea of removing us from school to go on holiday was simply not considered.

[seadogg]

To put this into perspective, what proportion of absences are for permitted family holidays? As an aside, when we lived in the Dales there seemed to be lots of kids busy with "haytiming" who on paper were desperately sick with bad colds.

[grffindoor2011]

I'm all for parents taking kids out of school around the summertime. The cost from the day after kids break up is scandalous. A small couple of hundred pound fine wouldn't make me conform to the state. The saving made during a term time holiday outweighs the 'fine'. Parents need to stand up to this. The problem is that most on here and in real life are gutless and let the government walk all over them.

I'm not one of them.